Discussion in 'Error Coins' started by john65999, Nov 28, 2021.
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Marks are on the face not the edge of the coin.
Post strike, mint damage.
@alurid stated is correct.
We have seen examples still inside the US Mint packaging with that damage.
Interesting if you think about it though..
It is post strike damage but pre circulation meaning before it left the Mint. It is some sort of in between Mint Error/Damage issue
I would call it a Quasi-Mint Error
I'm thinking it has something to do with the packaging process as well.
Excellent images. I'm keeping it for my reference image folder. Thanks!
It was something coin guy R. Cooper put out about 3 yrs. ago when asked the same question by someone. I thought it was good enough to file away, too.
@paddyman98 is correct and the damage occurred before it left the mint or mint authorized packaging facility or vendor (does the mint package all the proof sets in the San Fran facility?), packaging damage has never been considered a mint error.
The OP has started a few threads claiming that MD and DDD have a premium value and should be treated as mint errors. We shouldn't give him the impression that packaging damage is valuable as well. Just my opinion.
IMHO, an image of the edge would be helpful.
It does look like the image from R. Cooper of packaging equipment damage but .... proof sets came in hard plastic containers, not soft packs in 1993.
The "reeding" appear to be frosted like original devices of the coin (not shiny like the fields or shiny that can be caused by damage) and to be contained to the rim gutter of both dies. (Unless this "frosting" is an optical illusion, I'm wondering if this may be a die issue.)
Those ridges/"reeding" appear like they happened before the "frosting" was applied.
Hmmm, .... now I'm wondering how a reverse and obverse die, which are manufactured at different times (and not paired together until the striking chamber) have similar die damage to the rim gutter.
Maybe it is damage from a bezel, if it turns out there is no "frosting" on the "reeds"?
A couple of questions about mint packaging on uncirculated mint sets and packaging equipment.
----Packaging equipment can't damage opposite poles of a coin, can they? ----Wouldn't the damage from packaging equipment have to be a single side or adjoining sides (right angles)?
Thanks in advance for any insight.
Or is it done at a third party facility, meaning it left the mint?
Glad to see that I am not the only person who caught this.
Not Mint Set crimper damage. What it is, I do not know.
With this information its just got to be plain old PMD.
Maybe it got damaged being remove from said hard plastic case instead of being put in a soft one. Really makes me wonder about it.
so we can tell if there really are "frosted" surfaces on and around the "reeds".
EDITED: I've included an image by the OP with arrows I've added concerning my question about the "frosting".
I agree that incuse areas on a coin are generally PSD, but not always. (And the one part of the minting process that affects both sides of the rim at the same time by the same piece of equipment is the upsetting mill. I don't think this is a result of the upsetting mill.)
The mint didn't put proof coins in uncirculated sets.
I think the key question is: How could this occur during the minting process? I don't know how it could. A respected numismatic researcher like @CaptHenway can't offer an explanation at this time. No other member has offered a plausible theory of where in the minting cycle it happened.
So, if it can't be explained as having occurred at the mint, can it be an error?
A couple of observations. You may have noticed the same things, may find them intetesting, or may think I don't know certain parts of my anatomy from a hole in the ground, but I'm posting them anyway.
* the indentation pattern matches on the obverse and reverse indicating that it couldn't have happened before the striking process
* to leave indents, wouldn't the anomalies on the collar have be raised? What could cause that?
* some indents have distortion towards the fields. Wouldn't the dies block this during the strike? At what point could that metal flow/distortion occur? Certainly not after the hammer die retracts. There is also some distortion towards the edge on both sides. Wouldn't the collar prevent that, especially on the anvil die side?
* can't say for certain due to the pics, but some indents appear to have raised/displaced metal on the sides. Once again, how could this occur during the striking process
As others have said, the 1993 proof sets were packaged in hard plastic, not the soft pressed plastic that can be subject to packaging damage. However, it looks like packaging damage and nothing seems to point to it occurring during the minting process. I think you have to conclude it's post strike damage until more info is provided
That's not to say it isn't a cello issue though Littleton and other aftermarket sellers sell proof coins as individuals bagged in cello and it could be damage that occurred like that. I have an odd one that for sure is PMD doesn't look like yourse but it's odd. My theory on the below. Some sort of can opener most likely. Maybe run through some loose gears?
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