Will This Coin Cross Over To PCGS ?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Allan, Jan 11, 2020.

  1. Allan

    Allan Member

    What is the chance that it will make it in some grade? s-l1600 (16).jpg s-l1600 (15).jpg

    Thanks, Allan
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2020
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  3. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    The chances are extremely high that you'll get 64 from PCGS. There aren't a lot of marks, and the luster appears strong.

    However, neither NGC or PCGS should have called that FBL. There is a mark across the bottom set of lines towards the left that precludes the PCGS designation (they only look at the bottom set of lines), and there are marks across both the top and bottom lines that should preclude the NGC designation (NGC looks at both sets of lines).

    I am extremely disappointed that NGC called this FBL. Instead of crossing to PCGS, you should submit this to NGC for Presidential Review and have them remove the FBL and re-imburse you for their mistake.
     
  4. Dave Waterstraat

    Dave Waterstraat dave700x -1883 O nut

    I'll take an NGC grade over PCGS any day on a Franklin Half. Post a better image of the bell lines and we'll caucus...
     
  5. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    They aren't better, but they're different: if you look at the NGC photos, they show a different perspective - but it's still full of marks that should preclude the NGC FBL designation!

    https://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/4960707-023/64/
     
  6. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Quite agree.....that 'lightning strike' through the center of the bell lines should have disqualified it.

    Oh dear. Dat the crack in the Liberty Bell? :)

    Too much 'noise' going on in that area. I don't think the coin would cross......
     
  7. furham

    furham Good Ole Boy

    I agree with Jason. I'm surprised that NGC would designate this FBL.
     
  8. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I know that at least part of your post is sarcasm, so I'm going to work with that ;)

    However, I'll point out that there is a bit of forgiveness in a tiny area right around the crack (the actual measurement varies, but there is some leeway for strike right around the crack).
     
    green18 likes this.
  9. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    I always admire your learn'ed assessment Jason. I'm really quite out of my element with these, as I don't collect these coins based on the 'full' assessment. Just seems to me that there is an awful amount of 'chatter' in that area which would preclude the coin from getting a 'full' designation. An old sods point of view. :)

    How's FUN going?
     
  10. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    My concern with the FBL on this one is not right around the crack - it's the significant hits across the lines in several places.

    As for FUN, I got home this afternoon. I decided to relax, drink some Angel's Envy Rye, and not worry about coins this evening. I'll be photographing my newps and posting a couple threads tomorrow.
     
    green18 likes this.
  11. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Looking forward to your posts and pictures old friend........:)
     
  12. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Who you calling old, old man? I'm a young whipper-snapper ;)
     
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  13. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    And the 'Highway to Hell'....(I-4)...better on the leaving?
     
  14. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Saturday at 9 am on the way out vs Wednesday at 3:30 on the way in..... yeah, it was a whole lot better. Took me over 7 hours to get there, took me 6 hours to get home.
     
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  15. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Quite agree......You're years experienced in an younger mans body. :)
     
  16. Allan

    Allan Member

    Thanks everyone for the replies. I thought I was getting a good deal on it and it would cross over so I could use it in both registries but that's just my luck lol
     
  17. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    I can respect your goals, absolutely. Are you a type collector? Or a Franklin collector? Or, what set are you trying to build?

    For the purpose of elaboration, let me show you an example of a coin I used to own. This is a 1963D, so a slightly different date but same principle. In 1960, the Mint re-engraved the master hub to correct and strengthen details which had worn down over time. However, when they did that, they didn't strengthen the bell lines as much as they should have. For this reason, bell lines for the Franklins minted 1960-1963 were much weaker overall than from previous years. You'll notice a big change in availability and price for these later dates (except for 63D, which had such a high mintage that FBLs are more common than many other dates - but they are still quite rare as a percentage of mintage).

    On the coin I show below, you'll notice a complete, full set of bottom lines. This coin would be a no-questions-asked PCGS FBL. On the top set of lines, you'll see they are full and continuous except for a single fine little scratch. There is some debate amongst FBL collectors whether this is acceptable or not: a scratch is not a mark and is different than a ding or a hit. NGC will tend to accept very fine light scratches like this, but should not accept marks or hits. The coin shown in the OP shows multiple hits and marks across the lines, as opposed to the scratch shown here. If this all seems like splitting hairs.... it is.

    The ultimate reality is, you have to decide for yourself what you'll accept as FBL. The coin I post here was in my award winning FBL collection, the coin in the OP has too many hits for me to accept. But, what do you think?

    JPA798 reverse (2).jpg
     
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  18. Allan

    Allan Member

    Thanks, I'm trying to put together a Franklin FBL set
     
  19. Collecting Nut

    Collecting Nut Borderline Hoarder

    I would leave as is. Mainly because it's not a FBL. Any attempt to cross over and you will loose that designation. I'm very disappointed that NFC have it that.
     
    Allan likes this.
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