Will CAC succeed as a primary grader?

Now that the dust has settled a bit I think that CAC should have stuck to their original model, evaluating already graded coins and putting stickers on those that they thought were exceptional. I always hated their bias of only evaluating PCGS and NGC coins (no coincidence that JA was involved in both PCGS and NGC). I see no reason why they couldn't also evaluate ANACS and ICG coins as well. Of course that would boost ANACS and ICG as grading alternatives to the two that JA helped found.

 

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He’s trying to go three for three.

 

Did you forget your history. PCGS challenged the other TPGS that were around long before PCGS started. PCGS won. Then NGC challenged PCGS.

That's why JA refuses to do it. They don't need the added business and don't wish to indicated that the other two are equal or better EXCEPT for their value to most of the market.

 

I see CACG as a failure within 3 yrs. Overly conservative just doesn’t pan out cost/risk vs value. I just had 6 of 6 crossovers rejected and they want $213 for their efforts. Their smugness will get the better of them. I have a 100 or so stickered coins I’ll sell someday but I now refuse to bid or buy any CAC/CACG coins as I am really POed and done with them. Now they are saying they will only charge $10 to reject a coin. This “ special” is good for 3 months.

 

There have been some entertaining CAC/CACG 'HRUMPH!!" comments on this (and other) Platforms that are quite funny and disparaging.

However, your Shakespearean effort of disdain and dissatisfaction has just moved to 1st. Place.

I want to be the first to congratulate you.

Impressive.

 

No, I didn't forget my history. The main service that was around before PCGS was ANACS. It made a lot of marketing errors, the biggest of which was an announcement that they were tightening their grading standards after a certain date. That ruined the grades on the certificates they issued BEFORE that date. At first those coins were sold at discounts, with ads that indicated the grading date. Then they disappeared from the scene along with certificate only grading all together.

The problem with certificates was that the coins could be switched, and many collectors could not tell the difference. That's when slabs came along. Since the coin could not be removed from the slab, without destroying the value of the grade, the buyers felt more secure.

NGC came after PCGS. At first it was more conservative, then it become less conservative. More U.S. collectors also seemed to prefer the appearance of the PCGS slab. They became #1 in that market, but NGC starting grading foreign an ancient coins sooner. They took the lead in that market and maintain it to this day.

 

We shall see...

History tends to repeat. I wonder if you were even a collector in 1986. Back then some of the most famous, sussessful major dealers in my area REFUSED to accept or use PCGS! Who needs a another TPGS, ANACS and INSAB are bad enough (too strict)! They should sitck to authentication only.

 

Perhaps just sour grapes on a 6 for 6 rejection on crossover, a couple of low value proofs slabbed but an invoice of $213. Originally they had 4 rejected crossovers at $35 apiece and were going to create 2 $30 shipments. Readers do as you wish but imo cost/ risk vs potential value ( your net price realized when you sell) does not justify this new 3 rd party. But again, I have around 100 stickers on Morgan 66s, some 7s and many Mercury FB 67-68s. I will sell stickered coins but will not buy CAC/CACG.

 

Thank you Charley for your honest impression.

 

The dealer rejection of third party grading did work in one instance. In the late 1980s, currency dealers go together and boycotted certified currency. It delayed the certified currency market for several years.

 

Stay in your lane going into the far turn. You go wide and you’ll never ever make up the real estate you lost in the stretch run. There’s the advice I give the young fillies and foals around the stables. CAC went out of its lane, here, and it’s going to hurt for it, I agree, there.

 

I guess most of us will never know the motivation for JA to start his third (or at least be part of) grading company. Was part of it related to the ever lengthening turn-around times for normal collectors to get their coins certified/graded from the big two? I think CAC could have helped the collector community by looking at ANACS and ICG graded coins as well. I think the later two TPGs have graders that are on par with the big two. I'm sure @Insider would attest to that.

 

Yes and no. While I'll put my grading up to anyone, I'll never be as good a commercial grader as JA and the top 2 guys at CACG.

 

I am sure that you will benefit immensely and will understand that your particular form of Ire is triggered by an event/thought/reason that has nothing to do with the entities you despise, if you visit the CAC Forum everyday.

It is possible, and more likely, that your disgust is of your own recipe of choice via the coin(s) you purchased.

I will be blunt: I do not believe you have 6 Green or Gold stickered CAC legacy coins not be crossed over to CACG.

Are you aware that you can openly discuss the issue and the individual coins with the Owners and the Graders and the 10s of original investors (100 total-give or take), on the CAC/CACG PLatform?

Why not do so, instead of ranting and raving and condemning, because you want to assuage your keyboard temper?

 

My solution is to ignore a lot of this grading BS and enjoy the hobby. I buy the coins I like, almost all in NGC and PCGS holders mainly because they have most market share be far and are easier to resell if I decide to do so. I don’t worry about stickers and what one some expert thinks. If I like his sticker coin for the price, I buy it. If I don’t, I don’t.

I get tired of the “what do I have to pay it, and what can I sell it for?” mentality. That’s for dealers IMO. This hobby is a lot more than that.

 

The submissions were PCGS PF IHC. The stickered coins will remain that way and not reboldered to CACG slabs. Congrats Charley you are the one and only complainer.

 

So, they were NOT CAC green or gold stickered coins, just a PCGS TPG coin that did not cross at CAC.

OR, did you break the pieces out of the PCGS TPG Holder and submit to CACG for a Grade....an entirely different process than submitting to CAC for a green or Gold Sticker, and the coins did not receive Grade at any level from CACG (which means, you owned some real bloopers)?

OR, did you submit the PCGS TPG Graded coins intact in the PCGS TPG Graded Holder to CACG as a request to cross at same Grade and the coins did not cross?

OR did you submit the PCGS TPG Graded coins intact in the PCGS TPG Graded Holder as a request to cross at any Grade and you received a LOWERE Grade via CACG?

I will be blunt: I suspect you do not have sufficient knowledge to be attempting any submittals to any TPG (or 4PG), and, as to the other 100 or so Stickers of Morgan Dollars and/or Mercury Dimes, what you mean by "stickered" is a coin with a Grade from another TPG not associated with CAC OR CACG.

The challenge: Post all your comments on this and any other Thread you commented on CT, on the CAC Forum. Intact.

We will all maybe learn something.

As of now, all I have learned is your talent for relating entertaining, yet curmudgeonly, Blarney

 

Were the 6 coins that failed to cross previously stickered before the cutoff date and were any + graded? I don’t recall the exact cutoff date off hand (somewhere close to the first week in June 2023). Any coin stickered before this date is guaranteed to cross at the same grade or better. If the stickered coin is plus graded they will only guarantee it will cross at the whole grade. So unless you tried crossing at a higher grade and the coin met the sticker requirements you would have seen all 6 coins cross.

 

No these simply were PCGS slabs not CAC stickered coins.