Why wasn't this artist arrested for making multiple counterfeit U.S. cents?

Here we go again....

 

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Touché.

I supposed a few of the fantasy pieces that replicate coins that did exist but were (supposedly) totally destroyed could be considered counterfeits. 1964-D Peace comes to mind. Thats fair.

 

Not really. The problem with that argument is that is plays both side of the fence. The government doesn’t get to say these don’t exist we never made them but just encase we’re lying you can’t do that. They either exist or they don’t. If the government holds the position that they were never made or all destroyed that the end of it since we’ve learned in the double eagle case they can’t possibly be wrong

 

I don’t think the government has ever denied they made the 1964-D Peace Dollar. They just claim all we’re melted down and none survived. I think official records indicate 316000 were made.

I could be wrong though.

 

I think Doug’s statement (and I could be wrong) is that since they were made at one time then my statement earlier today isn’t totally accurate. That technically the 1964-D did exist and thus a recreation of it could be considered a counterfeit in the most literal sense

 

If they’re all melted and destroyed they don’t exist anymore though. They made it perfectly clear in the double eagle case they don’t make mistakes or release things ect so if they say they’re all destroyed that’s the end of it legally speaking.

The better argument would be against the future dated one.

 

Maybe.

My previous point was that you can’t make a counterfeit of something that never existed. Doug pointed out that specific argument doesn’t fit all of the Carr fantasy pieces. That was all I was responding too. His statement direct at mine was accurate.

Based on what i have read online in various legal dictionaries...the crime of counterfeiting requires an intent to defraud. If that is true (and I’m not an attorney) then neither of these things would be considered counterfeiting. Clearly there has been no effort to prosecute.

 

You wouldn't be posting that meme if you've been through this a bazillion times before..

 

Actually yes you can the government has already been through this with the FTC case that is legal precedent

And again no intent is necessary it's right there in the legal precedent case


Also they specifically addressed this again in the update H.P.A. In fact they addressed your own comments where you argued for no stamp being required as per the footnote and yet they again reiterated that works of that type require a stamp per the FTC case precedent.



Now queue being called a hater or whatever but how anyone who actually takes the time to read both the original FTC case legal precedent and the updated Hobby Protection Act and then somehow think that Carr's work is exempt is beyond my understanding.

https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/f...july_-_december_1978pages_171-273.pdf#page=26

https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/do...ces/2016/10/frn_hobby_final_rule_10-14-16.pdf

 

Yeah I know but it’s fun to watch others besides ME spin and bounce like Tops! Besides if I use the meme I used yesterday on a different thread I’ll be burned at the stake by the angry mob for sure!
L. O. L. So there is no mistake.

 

BTW I do read this stuff so something HAS TO sink in! I do have a hard head though. Here’s a picture of me with out glasses.
And one with, I think I look smarter already!
Reed.

 

Oops double tap!

 

It's clear that there are folks with opinions that are on both sides of this fence. Most are never going to change how they feel about the topic. I quit giving my opinion after being called a Carr hater, over and over again. For the record, there are only a few coins Mr. Carr has produced that I have a problem with.

 

Old Japanese Proverb
出る杭は打たれる

• deru kui wa utareru
• Translation: The stake that sticks out gets hammered down.
• Meaning: "Standing out goes hand in hand with criticism."
• English equivalent: The nail that sticks out gets hammered down.

My head is as flat as a table from all the hammering.
Reed.

 

The contention that the "1964-D" over-strike Peace is somehow different because they were previously minted is invalid because the issuing authority (the US Treasury Department) has officially issued a statement that all were destroyed and none were issued or released.

 

None of this takes into consideration the over-striking of genuine coins to clearly impart a date which was never issued.

The outfit that produced the "fantasy-date" German Wilhelm gold coins struck them on virgin blanks (so they were not alterations to genuine coins), and they marketed the coins with claims that they were official German mint restrikes. This indicated a fraudulent intent.

The definition of "Original Numismatic Item" in the Hobby Protection Act indicates that a protected item must have been previously issued as part of a coinage. 1964 Peace Dollars were never issued - the US Treasury Department says so.

 

This stuff gets so old with me. Who the devil is gonna get hurt with these (DC) coins (tokens)? You guys want to save the world? Go ahead, but the only people that are gonna get hurt are the ones trying to pass them off as genuine........

 

I don't disagree with you. Again, my original statement said that it is impossible to counterfeit something that never existed. The 1964-D Peace did exist...so my argument was not valid on that particular coin. That is all that I was saying. Doug pointed that out to me...and I was simply acknowledging that I was in error.

If I am wrong when I say something...and I learn otherwise, I prefer to own up to it. That's all.

I honestly don't think this particular argument of yours holds water. Once you restrike a coin...you completely change that coin. It doesn't matter that it was once a real silver dollar.

Again, I personally don't think what you do is illegal (I know others feel very differently). That said, if doing what you do with blank dies was illegal...I don't think that striking over existing coins would change that.

 

It's a "soap box" issue Ken...that's all.