Why is this Reverse Proof a PL designation?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by iPen, Feb 10, 2016.

  1. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    It was my understanding that reverse proofs would be designated as proofs or "PF" by NGC (proofs by TPGs and collectors). But why are the Mexico 1 oz Libertad reverse proofs designated as PL's by NGC?

    Was the minting process not proof enough?


    My guess... :

    Did they employ a different method that doesn't allow it to classify as proofs? For example, were MS dies simply polished at the devices to create reverse proofs? Seems economical for a small release of 1,500 (1,000 to bank employees and 500 on the market for 2015). The fields on the reverse proof almost look the same as the MS strikes, so I'm taking an educated guess at that. Do you know for sure why?


    Pics from the net. To me, either proof or reverse proof looks great.
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. K2Coins

    K2Coins GO GATORS

    Maybe their PL designation before the numerical grade stands for Reverse Proof. I would only assume this because when you look at morgans that are prooflike theyre graded as MS65 PL. With the PL designation after the assigned grade. So if the normal struck one on the bottom right was prooflike they would grade it as MS70 PL, not PL70 (which would refer to a Reverse Proof)
     
  4. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    Lots of countries (China, Australia, etc) are producing coins which look exactly like deep cameo proofs; yet they are minted as MS coins. Several TPGS's have on occasion labeled them as PL or DCAM. it can be due to trying to describe the coin or not caring that they all look that way.
     
  5. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    This is a good explanation; however, a look on the net should show that all the TPGS's have put Reverse Proof somewhere on the label when they slab a Reverse Proof coin.

    OP should call NGC and tell us what's up.
     
  6. K2Coins

    K2Coins GO GATORS

    Seems like they messed up the lable then. I've never seen the PL designation before the numerical grade
     
  7. JPeace$

    JPeace$ Coinaholic

    I don't know why they would use "PL" in this instance. I would have thought they would use "SP".

    In this instance, PL is not the designation "Proof Like". Designations are listed after the numerical grade.
     
  8. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Here's NGC's reverse proof designation (PF) on the silver eagle below.

    PL for proof like should come after the numeric grade.

    SP is for Enhanced Proof by NGC.

    That's my understanding, anyway.

    Pic from the 'net.

    [​IMG]
     
    swamp yankee likes this.
  9. JPeace$

    JPeace$ Coinaholic

    Okay, I called NGC and asked the specific question. I couldn't find it on their site, so I called.

    The reason NGC uses PL for this coin is because that's what the Mexican Mint uses to describe it. Whereas, the US Mint calls them reverse proof, the Mexican Mint calls it a PL.
     
    Endeavor likes this.
  10. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Nice thanks for that.

    So why does the Mexican Mint call it PL? lol

    I'd give them a call but my Spanish isn't too suave.

    Maybe they don't categorize coins as "reverse proof". Maybe they don't categorize it as reverse proof because the MS dies are used with the devices highly polished.

    Maybe the same is true of the Australian Kookaburras for several of the years (e.g. 2008).
     
  11. JPeace$

    JPeace$ Coinaholic

    @iPen, I really like the "reverse proof". I'm just not willing to pay the price $500+ for that two coin set (uncertified). Waaaay to much for that set, IMO.
     
    swamp yankee likes this.
  12. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    A modern proof will be struck twice at higher pressures with special presses on specially prepared planchets with dedicated dies.

    If any of these factors are not present, the coin is a "business strike" and will be designated as PL. There are numerous Canadian, British, Chinese, Mexican, South African, and other coins which have a proof appearance but which aren't true proofs. These will all be designated as "PL". Do a quick search on Ebay and this will become immediately apparent.
     
  13. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Yes, but if the various Mints call it a proof-like, then at least NGC will follow that label.

    If the various Mints call it a proof, despite it not being processed as a proof, then will NGC still follow suit? If it's a proof strike but the various Mints call it a proof, then will NGC still follow that label? Etc.

    Unless all these Mints are more or less standardized to follow "minting best practices", by copying what the better known Mints from around the world do (e.g. hire consultants, employ those Mints themselves, hire reputable private Mints, etc.).
     
  14. Garlicus

    Garlicus Debt is dumb, cash is king.

    Reverse proof in Spanish is Prueba Inversa. Perhaps the "I" was mistaken for an "L".
     
  15. iPen

    iPen Well-Known Member

    Maybe, like PI was submitted and was interpreted as Pl lol.

    (depending on the font, capital "i" and lowercase "l" may look the same).
     
  16. JPeace$

    JPeace$ Coinaholic

    Interesting.

    Seeing that they're based in Fl, I'm sure they have some employees that speak Spanish.
     
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