Why is PCGS so hard on the 1920 Saint?

Got the 1920 MS63 about an hour ago.
Condition is 64 on the obverse but the reverse has one solid bag hit right on the beak, otherwise it would be a solid 64.
The reverse appears to have perfectly good luster w/ great cartwheel.

The front has great luster but the cartwheel effect is a bit odd.
The light seems to jump around a little unevenly.

Is that it?
I have a couple MS65 coins that do the same sort of thing.
I guess I might have to sit down with someone at a show for a lesson because I'm not seeing something right.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

After quite a bit of further study on the 1920 saint & PCGS, I have some advice.

When buying this year, be especially cautious of "buying the coin and not the holder" because there are a lot of MS62 looking coins in MS64 slabs.

Also...Never-ever try to get an upgrade on a coin of this year.
If your MS63 looks like a MS65 you will not even get a +

Just throw money at a clean, already graded coin.

I just got a 64+ and can't tell the difference between it and my 62.
(The difference in price was $9250)

Now on to the 1922...
(skipping the 1921)

 

Do you have a Saint Registry set yet? Mine:

https://www.pcgs.com/SetRegistry/mysetregistry/album/119520

https://coins.www.collectors-society.com/registry/coins/SetSlideshow.aspx?PeopleSetID=131711

 

Uh, that's a 20-S. You realize that mistaking a 64 for a 65 is a $300,000 mistake on that date, right?

To respond to your initial question, 1920 doesn't come as nice as the ultra-common dates (08 NM, 24, 27) as often. There's big money to be made getting one in a holder above a 64, and the TPGs aren't going to let a marginal coin in one of those holders. This is not the case for the common dates, and you'll routinely find crap in 65 and higher holders.

 

So it seems like you are saying that the TPGs are "sloppy" dealing with common dates, not caring if they overgrade by 1 or 2 numbers if the price won't skyrocket ?

 

Sort of.

Common date Saints often get graded in bulk, where they're not seen by as many graders as the rare dates submitted at higher service tiers. For the typical grades, there are ton of coins with the common dates. A few of these will be high end, and you'll never see these, as they're set aside for special buyers or crackouts. A few are really nice, and you have to cherrypick through lots of other coins for these. The rest (most) are mediocre and low-end coins which are put into the face of the marketplace as soon as possible. The low-end mistakes are blown out to wholesalers and sold on TV and through fancy advertising. The presence of quantities of mediocre and low-end coins sets the tone for what a particular grade should look like, even though the high-end and really nice coins aren't seen

Rare dates don't get the same treatment by those submitting and selling them. They're not submitted in bulk, and the grading services have a bigger downside liability on a grade guarantee, so getting that big dollar bump in grade isn't as likely.

 

Welcome Back @GoldFinger1969

 

More likely to get the benefit of the doubt on borderline coins

 

I'm sorry, but I'd suggest looking at the average CAC beaned coin to establish an acceptable coin for the average/+ appropriate TPG graded coin. I believe you'll find that the an average MS62 CAC green-beaned St. Gaudens will have better presentation than the posted MS63 1920.

Please compare the following MS63 coin to the post. Look at the flame on the torch, the torch fingers/hand detail, bag marks, cartwheel luster, uniformity of fields and devices. You should be able to discern the difference in grading.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1922-20-Sa...UAAAOSwfQ9b9ENb:sc:USPSFirstClass!55063!US!-1

I could post numerous lesser and greater graded $20 St. Gaudens coins that would show the differences between what you may perceive from a "market-grading" perspective, and believed correctly graded specimens. The majority would probably be by a differing TPG, as those that I selected from my non-CAC coins were.

JMHO

 

I believe you'll find the answer to your question, thus: A Cart wheel is a component from/for a Cart. A cartwheel may be numerous, the same as above, an effect seen with motion/movement, or a gymnastic exercise related to movement, etc..

JMHO

 

Thread update....This one was a major PITA but here it is.
64+ CAC pop 90/ 2 higher.

 

Nice! So are you doing a date set and getting 1921 next, or a date and mint set and buying a 1920-S?

 

I'm up against it now.
My next coin is the 1929 so it's going to take me all this year and part of next to save up for it.
18 down and probably only one more to realistically have a chance at getting for my date set.

The 21 will be a hole along with 30, 31 & 32

I might start assembling a set of innobucks or something else VERY inexpensive just to keep me occupied.