Why ICGS or NGC etc. when CAC can overrule there grading.

B-III: No sir! the green bean is not a 64.5, at least not for a coin on the edge of a huge jump. This 64+ green bean sold for $1350. More like a 64.16.

for coins where the bump from 2-3-4-5 is somewhat arithmetic, the + might get you halfway.

 

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That little sticker seems to make people think a coin is worth a lot more than it was before it was sent in, but it's the same coin. I've seen too many CAC coins where the seller is asking for an unjustified premium due to the sticker and not due to the qualities of the coin. That doesn't make sense. There are plenty of solidly graded slabbed coins out there that haven't been sent to CAC.

 

That is the point I was trying to make and you said it better!

 

I'm surprised that PCGS and NGC haven't started a "second opinion" service to evaluate previously-slabbed coins and essentially confirm the original grade. For this to work, it would have to be cheaper than a full grading, and it would have to be very clear that this may not be quite as accurate since the coins are being evaluated through an existing slab. They could also maintain a database of their "yea" or "nay" and associate it with the original TPG's serial number so a coin buyer could check to see if a coin has been "nay'ed" (since they, presumably, won't put a "nay" sticker on a slab).

I think this would provide the extra level of comfort that many people are relying on the CAC sticker for, without the extra meaning that CAC is trying to impart.

 

@Doug Wheeler , both companys in a way have this service. It's the reconsideration service.

In now way do I see them wanting to mimic CAC. It's suicidal to the "C" coins for the grade and will lead to undermining of their grading reputations.

IMO, one of the big reasons CAC is so popular is due to John Albanese. His reputation is what give the "bean" it's market power.

 

Well, they don't sticker the C coins since the submitter would just remove the sticker anyway. Presumably the TPGs would do it the same way. How would anyone know?

As for reputation, within a grade you will have a normal distribution of quality with most coins falling into B and some in both A and C. This is to be expected. A grader that only slabs C coins as the next grade lower is grading too conservatively. C coins within a grade exist and they are really and truly are C coins within the grade.

 

No tpg company will ever say their opinion was a nay.

 

I was meaning that they would be giving a second opinion of ANOTHER TPG's grade. For example, someone could send in a PCGS graded coin to NGC for a second opinion and NGC would either agree or disagree with the PCGS grade. They are, essentially, saying whether their competitor's opinion matches their own. They wouldn't be re-evaluating their own grading.

 

I just had an evil thought.........what happens if J. A. sells CAC and and moves on to another venture? The service itself seems to sell based on Johns opinions, so if he were to leave would the service he now offers still command a certain respect?

 

Off that hypothetical alone I am now shorting CAC imaginary stock.

 

That's a huge risk, right? God forbid, he won't live forever and when the ownership changes hands will it retain it's market position? No one knows. That's why it's important to learn the hobby and not just rely on TPG's and CAC.

 

Allow me to rephrase. No tpg will place a nay sticker on their slab to circulate and tell people their doing poorly. It is one thing to buy back and crack out the coin. It is a radically different thing to circulate your mistakes and even brand them with scarlet "a"'s

 

CAC is a third opinion that comes at a premium. That is the long and short of it.

 

Green 18: I've been holding back the J.A. Info. He could be described as the "Father of TPG-Era Numismatics." Some will wretch at this notion, but his impact in undeniable. When I encountered my first green bean, I called CAC to get a full understanding of the verdant legume. Guess what, J. A. Got on line with me for 10 minutes.

I believe in the value of the bean for a small number of slabs. BUT.... The first time I see a bean on a slabbed ASE....I will bust out laughing.

 

John is quite approachable. I met him at a Connecticut show back when he was first rolling out his service. One just has to wonder though, given his propensity for start ups (PCGS, NGC), what his next venture might be.

 

CAC is not a grading service. It is a market maker that reviews coins consistent with its internal standards and stickers those that it would be willing to buy at a pre-established and published bid/value. To that end, yes it is true that CAC only stickers solid to high end coins, based on its standards.

And people tend to care about CAC because it backs up its opinion with money, and in many cases, the bids are very strong. I have had offers that were equal to or more than I paid for a coin.

 

My take on CAC is this.
I DO NOT need a little green/gold sticker to tell me that the coin is a nice coin for the grade or under graded.

The value of them stickers to me are exactly worth $12.50 premium.

And the dealers that promote them as being the cat's *** and worth a 2x-5x premium are the very dealers I view the same as that guy on tv selling us mint products at 5x just because their graded by annacs and #ed 001 of 1789 and claiming they are as rare as hens teeth.

Quick story,
went to a shop he had an 1885 PCGS AU58 ($62-$68)Indian penny I said "how much"
He said "63 money"($130-$145)
I asked "why"
He said "CAC premium"
That was the last time I walked through his door and I avoid him like the plague at the shows.

 

I'm interested. For all those criticizing and bashing the CAC, what is your take on gradeflation?

 

I ain't near enough grown up to take that question on Paul. Doug trounced me once back at a time. Still smarting over that one.........