Why ICGS or NGC etc. when CAC can overrule there grading.

From what I have gleaned, CAC is a positive coin grading service who will objectively "confirm" the grade assigned by grading services. If they do not confirm the grading result of PCGS, NGC, etc. then what is the value of the latter? Please correct me ... but as I see it, CAC can make you feel less than happy if they contradict grading by the usual services. And finally, why should we rely on a CAC grading override or as they say a non-confirmation. I am completely in a conundrum over this.

Your comments are appreciated, I need to be educated

 

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Coins need to be graded by a tpg first because people wouldnt like CAC placing the sticker directly on the coin.

 

CAC is always a hot topic on the NGC boards. While not as contentious here, it's still brings out vigorous discussion.

IMO, there are many reasons to like CAC. It can help your confidence when buying online. It can help train your eye when you send your coins to their service: when the bean and don't bean. It will help the liquidity of your coin when you go to sell, at least in today's market.

IMO, CAC is not infallible. So if they don't "bless" a coin with their bean, it doesn't mean it's not a nice coin. I've seen plenty of examples (some of my own) where I really liked the coin, but CAC did not. So be it. I've also seen plenty of coins with the CAC sticker that I wouldn't want for my collection.

Some in the hobby have come to rely solely on their opinion. IMO, this can be dangerous. The founder of CAC is a well known and very respected. So having another opinion is not a bad thing if you're on the fence about a coin.

I've left out some of my other thoughts about CAC, but I think I've covered my main opinions and observations about the green/gold bean.

You might want to visit the CAC website as the explain what they are trying to do. They don't necessarily "override" a TPG grade. They just determine if they believe it's a "B" or "A" coin for the grade. They also gold bean when they feel the coin is definitely under graded by one full point.

 

As a bargain hunter, and one who tries to maximize his collection size rather than buy expensive coins, I don't really care for cac sticker coins. The tpg graded coins I can afford rarely if ever are sent to get the green sticker, so I could care less. I guess if one were buying nicer coins in the few to several hundreds of dollars, cac might be helpful when buying and selling. I can see why it exists, but it mostly seems like overkill. If a coin is really choice, I think most of the times it is sent back in again and again for a better grade. So the green stickers end up on the rejects, I would assume. It's probably explained differently but not to me. I think the Wings sticker for world coins is even more of a joke since most collectors of world coins are outside the US, and these collectors could probably care less about American tpg opinions. It also just screams copycat

 

It's merely a second set of 'eyes', nothing more. Just an extra assurance on a grade. That said, I need it not, as I pick and choose my own coins and care not for assurances. I judge my pickups on their merits alone and not by someone else's opinion.......

 

Green, I'm glad you have the skill and I respect it cuz that is where I want to be without losing a lot of money .

 

Anyone who thinks that the grading services are 100% perfect is dreaming. So, for many people, CAC does perform a service. On the other hand, I would like to know how accurate CAC would be if they processed thousands upon thousands of raw coins each week like the grading services. I'd bet they would make just as many mistakes.

Chris

 

That's because you think. Therefore, you are. There are many collectors who do not think. Therefore, they are not. See how that works?

 

Absolutely.......nothing could be better than making ones own decision.....

 

Just another smart entrepreneur finding a way to seperate collectors/dealers from their money. Not only have the TPG's found a way to alleviate collectors from the burden of grading, now we have entities that alleviate any doubt. What's around the corner, a new company authenticating the authenticators authentication?

 

I can see the purpose, but I'd rather just be able to recognize if a coin is graded properly than rely on others even if it is JA.

 

CAC doesn't confirm the grade - that's a common misconception.

What CAC does is:

1. Identify the tiny proportion of undergraded coins and awards them the gold bean.
2. For accurately graded coins - which can customarily be divided into A (being the best), B (being the middle group within the grade) and C (being the lower group) within that grade. Then the A and B coins are awarded the green bean as "solid for the grade".

So the CAC green does NOT mean "almost the next grade"!!!!

 

How could anything that is inherently subjective with no gold-standard "truth" be 100% perfect? In order for something to even be capable of attaining a 100% perfect rating, there has to be a known truth of what that value would be. Accuracy requires that a known "true" real value exists before one can measure it.

What I would hope for from TPGs would be consistency/repeatability/precision -- that can actually be measured.

Think of a dartboard analogy to coin grading -- there is no bulls-eye (known "true" grade) on the coin grading target, so being accurate isn't possible. It sure would be nice if at least the darts (grades) clustered together upon multiple throws though (precision). CAC then comes along and says "yeah, that's about where I'd throw the dart" -- an opinion of an opinion. You start to see how laughable the whole micro-grading game becomes.

 

Or the alternative analogy - throw a bunch of darts, THEN draw the bullseye and claim how good you are...

 

While I understand your point, when it comes time to sell your coins, prospective buyers will value JA's opinion, not yours.

I think what most people don't understand is that TPG certification and CAC acceptance don't increase value, they increase liquidity of the coin's full value.

 

Love it! First time I ever heard that!

 

I agree with you, Brandon, almost. The problem which remains is that the TPG graders can't possibly maintain "consistency/repeatability/precision" unless they all had a photographic memory.

Chris

 

Paying for a CAC review makes sense for a a small fraction of graded coins. Coins on the edge of a steep jump in value, or coins which fetch grades well into the "stratosphere." I've used this example before, but it is illustrative. Send a beautiful 1891-CC Morgan to PCGS....and it comes back 64+. The value of this coin quadruples from 64-->65. And 64+ is NOT 64.5. At the time, dealer bids on the 64/65 were something like $950 / $3800.

Whadda ya do? (a) send slab back to P for a re-grade, (b) send it to NGC for a "crack it and re-slab it only if you'll give it a 5," (c) crack it and send it to P or N, hoping to catch the 5, but praying it does not come back 4, (d) send it to a lesser TPG service, cracked or slabbed, or (e) send it to CAC, praying for the elusive gold bean, but happy with a greenie.

Think about CAC as a form of re-insurance (or re-assurance). You only buy this type of insurance when the economics justify.

 

CG I understand what you're saying is the market interpretation:

That the green bean is the .5

But that's not what CAC says their business is, although it could certainly be inferred to be how they hope you will interpret it from their advertisements.

They wouldn't be the first business model based on hoping the public misinterprets them. PT Barnum's famous "this way to the egress" comes to mind.

The large print giveth and the small print taketh away...