Why Don't PCGS & NGC Share Population Data ?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by GoldFinger1969, Jan 20, 2021.

  1. Dialupsux

    Dialupsux Well-Known Member

    must be time to inscribe each coin with a nice laser label. (What will TPGs charge for that? Dang I should have patented that idea )
     
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  3. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    :D:D:D

    For ultra-rares (like a 1927-D or a 1921 Saint), it probably doesn't matter as you can tell from actual sales that they are super-rare and 1 or 2 additional coins here-or-there doesn't matter.

    Similarly, a few thousand or tens of thousands on coins that are common in Mint State like the 1924 Saint or the 1928 Saint, won't skew pricing or population data either.

    It's where you might have a total population of a few hundred or a few thousand and only a small % are in the various Mint States....that's where accuracy matters, IMO.
     
  4. -jeffB

    -jeffB Greshams LEO Supporter

    I think there are many, many businesses that don't believe this, and business models that count on haze. Airline ticket pricing leaps immediately to mind, followed closely by Realtors (mind the capital letter and don't forget the ®) and auto sales/service.

    I'm not sure how you define "best", but businesses will usually make their own well-being part of the metric.
     
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  5. GoldFinger1969

    GoldFinger1969 Well-Known Member

    Fair point, but this isn't about PRICING but about market statistics that benefit not only the TPGs but the public, too.

    A better example would be late arrivals and lost baggage being categorized only as Nonexistent, Somtimes, Every Now & Then, and Lots -- instead of hard numbers. :D

    I think the NFL and TV vs. Ticket revenues is a better example. The NFL was petrified that TV would cause ticket sales (80% of revenues) in the 1960's and early-1970's to be cannibalized and instituted policies like the Blackout Rule to protect teams. Today, TV is over 50% of revenue for most teams and ticket revenue, while important, is 2nd or 3rd for most teams.

    The NFL took a short-term hit -- ticket sales (maybe) -- to GROW the game and make the NFL the most popular sport and the sport most popular on TV.
     
  6. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    The pop reports are fine you just have to know how to read them. Any population below a big price jump will be inflated, just use the reports for a general idea, use it to see what dates are more scare, use it to see where grades start to get scare, use it to see what the top pop is etc.

    Unless you're going to start marking the coins themselves (even then coin doctors would try and remove the markings) population reports would never be accurate even if all the TPGs shared everything. There is nothing that stops people from breaking coins out themselves. You would literally have to spend millions developing insanely expensive slabs that notify the TPGs it's slab has been cracked out
     
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  7. calcol

    calcol Supporter! Supporter

    At some point, a standardized, public laser scan may be developed that has the resolution to identify individual coins. The scanner may be cheap enough (a few $100, maybe less) that most dealers, advanced collectors, clubs, etc. can afford one. Scanners would be connected to the internet, and the database would be maintained centrally, perhaps by the ANA or a new NPO. Certification numbers, if known, would entered with the scan, and each coin would have a unique scan ID.

    If a coin is scanned and has been scanned before, the user would be able to see the existing scan ID. If a scan ID is entered on the maintenance website, any TPG certification numbers in the database would come back. If a TPG certification number is entered, the scan ID and any other TPG cert. nos. would come back. The database could also be used for auction history tracing and recovering lost or stolen coins. At some point when TPG population numbers become really ridiculous, even the TPGs may support the idea.

    Cal
     
  8. CoinCorgi

    CoinCorgi Tell your dog I said hi!

    Why not put serial numbers on coins. There wouldn't be any room left for a design...get rid of dead presidents, liberty, that damned bird. Just a bunch of numbers and In God We Trust. Beautiful design, no confusion on anyone's population reports. Damn I'm brilliant.
     
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  9. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    A strong GM and Ford benefits the US auto industry as well as consumers.

    But you don’t think one would like to see the other go out of business?
     
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  10. Dialupsux

    Dialupsux Well-Known Member

    AT LAST my plan for cryptocurrency will come true 'MUAhahahahah" (evil laugh)
    Oh wait a minute, that's already being done.Darn
     
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  11. Razz

    Razz Critical Thinker

    Why don't they at least put the date on the slab that the coin was graded? Why is that so secret?
     
  12. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    Well you can already approximately date slabs by their style.
     
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  13. robp

    robp Well-Known Member

    Sharing the data would be pointless. Take your pick for which reason would apply best, but all make some contribution.
    They don't have equal standards, either internally for what is the same nominal type, or crossing over.
    The labels, certainly for non-US coins are a bit hit and miss when it comes to description.
    The numbers cracked out and resubmitted are many, most with the obvious intention of changing the population distribution. Grade inflation is the name of the game for those intent on increasing the value of their holding.
    The numbers cracked out and not resubmitted are many.
    A lack of pictures for all slabbed coins means that even if it was recorded, you would still have to rely on them recording the previous data accurately.
    There are examples of repaired coins in slabs (invariably higher value because of costs), which might change the pop reports if previously in a details slab, but equally could lead people to think there are more coins extant than is the case if they have done any research using past sales.

    Whilst there might be a tendency to keep coins in slabs in the US, the same cannot be said for many collectors across the world. On a personal level, I have bought and cracked out well over 100 coins including 4 of the top 9 of a particular type. Around two dozen of these coins were bought in the knowledge that the label was wrong. At least one with a population of 1 was incorrectly described, meaning that there are no coins slabbed of that type, whilst at the same time none recorded of the type in the slab. I know more people that take them out than pay good money to get another person's opinion.

    There's no substitute for knowing your stuff, because any attempt at combining the reports would merely add further confusion to an already meaningless set of data.
     
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  14. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator



    Not every year, every month - and then it just stopped.

    If memory serves, I think it was 2007 when they were finally realized what they were doing to themselves and stopped printing them.
     
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