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Message:: [QUOTE="medoraman, post: 1091102, member: 26302"]And I have posted I have seen toning being performed that would in every way replicate your bottom three types Paul. I was "speaking in tongues" since I do not want to tell everyone how its done. I offered to tell you via PM how it was performed, but you never responded. This knowledge is out there, has been for decades. My point was that you stated that you HAD to assume that almost no coins deemed NT were AT because of your logic in your first post here. That is the post I was referring to I couldn't follow the logic. Why, just because you are unaware of first hand knowledge of expert AT, that it cannot exist? You claim this again just now, "I have made the claim that the number of coin doctors who can consistently fool the TPG's with their work is a very small and elite club". Ok, that is your right to claim that, I would disagree. I know of no first hand people doing this right now, since the people I knew who did it probably are dead by now, but just as you believe they don't exist, I believe this information is still out there. I was not claiming 50%, just how do we know it isn't? 5%, 20%, I don't know, but your argument just wasn't proving your conclusion to me. That is all I was saying.[/QUOTE]