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<p>[QUOTE="tmoneyeagles, post: 2743817, member: 17557"]You just had an epiphany a few pages back that photos can look different based on the platform you view them on, so this probably isn't the best time to appeal to your own authority, in the form of your "keen critical eye."</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Ad hominem. <i>I for one am shocked.</i></p><p><br /></p><p>Paul has made hundreds of transactions on eBay and through the various coin forums over the past 10+ years. I've bought from him before and have never had a problem, he's professional from start to finish--<i>including providing accurate photographs of what his coins look like in hand.</i> Gasp! Something that GSC doesn't do.</p><p><br /></p><p>This seems to be your favorite one-two punch, Kurt. </p><p><br /></p><p>Here we have another ad hominem. </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Yeah, he's a poker player. A damn good one too, we used to have weekly CoinTalk poker tournaments--he's wiped the floor with all of us who were apart of that group at one point or another. Before you start damning all us poker players, if I recall correctly it was Doug's idea to have the group in the first place. </p><p><br /></p><p>And referring to grown adult men as "kids" is priceless, especially ones who convey professionalism on a consistent basis in their postings and transactions. </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Another appeal to authority. That's a nice award, but it means nothing to us on a coin forum. As Paul stated, it's about the content you produce and how you approach and help others. I'd like to weave that idea into another ridiculous statement you've made, but I'm hesitant to say it's an appeal to authority because it's just so silly.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>"Not that anyone should give a rip"--then why even bring it up in the first place?</p><p><br /></p><p>But since you did, I'd like to expand on Paul's response. Likes were implemented relatively recently in CoinTalk history. (The site was founded around the turn of the century). Back when these forums were more lively with rich discussions, 2008-2010, CoinTalk had a "Thread/Topic of The Week" feature, where members of this forum could all nominate one thread per week to be TOTW. We also had an "Exhibit" thread series that ran in conjunction with this for a little while. Paul was a powerhouse in pumping out phenomenal educational threads that gave him TOTW honors quite a bit. </p><p><br /></p><p>Most of our old crew who could remember these times vividly are long gone, whether they be deceased, lost interest in the forum, or lost interest in collecting. So I'll speak for more than just myself here when I say that Paul has been fundamental in the numismatic education of a lot of us. If you want more proof you can feel free to dig up Paul's old threads and see how well he has been received over the years and the type of content he has produced.</p><p><br /></p><p>Moral of the story is "likes" don't mean anything; their most useful purpose is cutting down on people quoting a post and saying "I agree" or "+1" or "HAHAHA." What matters on this forum, and on any internet community, is what you have provided to the community, and Paul has taught hundreds of us over the years a thing or two about a thing or two.</p><p><br /></p><p>Conversely, and though I don't post as much as I used to I do lurk often, I cannot for the life of me think of one example of something you've posted that had me clicking "add to bookmarks." </p><p><br /></p><p>Now I'd like to delve into GSC a bit. They have an awful reputation on all the coin forums and for good reason: they're dishonest. It's always been that way. They give generic descriptions, blanket grades, conveniently angled photos, juiced photos (saturation, hue, B&W, contrast, etc. all out of whack), and plenty of weaselly disclaimers. And they have a history of being very lackadaisical in giving returns. </p><p><br /></p><p>Beginning collectors, as Paul has pointed out, will buy from them thinking they got a steal on a "GEM BU++" rare piece that grades XF45 at PCGS that forces them to learn a several hundred and even a several thousand dollar lesson. For years, members of all coin forums have told newbies to stay as far away as humanly possible, because GSC is the definition of too good to be true.</p><p><br /></p><p>Since we're on the topic of 1903 proof Morgans, let's look at some from GSC:</p><p><br /></p><p>Here's the one Paul provided a link to earlier:</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/DruNhqq.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/FCcgObR.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p>The auction for the above coin was titled: "1903 Morgan Silver Dollar PROOF, Gorgeous Solid Gem PF++, Only 755 PR's Minted!"</p><p><br /></p><p>- 13 bidders</p><p>- 30 bids</p><p>- $2,200.00 sale price</p><p>- Closed on 1/27/2017</p><p>- Feedback left by buyer: "Coin is fraud, cannot be graded by PCGS, do not buy raw coins, doctored photo."<img src="http://i.imgur.com/8823AcC.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p><br /></p><p>Here's another one:</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/xuRka9J.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/vuGjV9f.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p>The auction for the above coin was titled: "1903 Morgan Silver Dollar, Deeply Toned Choice Gem PF++, Only 755 PR's Struck!"</p><p><br /></p><p>- 11 bidders</p><p>- 38 bids</p><p>- $2,767.43 sale price</p><p>- Closed 4/18/2017 </p><p>- Feedback left by buyer: "Item not as shown. No contact at all after return. Ebay had to step in to pay me"</p><p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/QKoEA5s.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p><br /></p><p>And here is the relist for it:</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/oCtVtPh.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/J3Np38N.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p>The auction for the relist was titled: "1903 Morgan Silver Dollar, Deeply Toned PROOF, Choice Gem PF++, Just 755 PR Made"</p><p><br /></p><p>- 13 bidders</p><p>- 22 bids</p><p>- $1,731.00 sale price</p><p>- Closed 5/12/2017 </p><p>- (Couldn't find the feedback, either hasn't been left or was positive)</p><p><br /></p><p>And now we have the current auction at hand:</p><p><br /></p><p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/R6VngbV.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p><img src="http://i.imgur.com/wfB0X0x.jpg" class="bbCodeImage wysiwygImage" alt="" unselectable="on" /> </p><p>The auction for the above coin is titled: "1903 Morgan Silver Dollar, PROOF, Very Tough Gem PF++, Just 755 PR's Minted!"</p><p><br /></p><p>At the time of this post:</p><p>- 6 bidders</p><p>- 9 bids</p><p>- $1,625.00</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Now the first and fourth auctions could very well be the same coin; proof coins can give a lot of appearances in different lighting setups and camera angles. However, even though I don't think that those two coins are the same, <i>I <b><u>can't</u></b> give them the benefit of the doubt. </i>GSC specializes in trying their absolute best to conceal problems on raw coins, problems that could hinder the coin's ability for it to be graded. (A stroll down GSC's feedback shows that, with the first auction in my post being a prime example). They've been doing this for years. </p><p><br /></p><p>It's suspicious to me when high volume sellers, that clearly do this for a living, do not send off coins that are higher value to TPGs. Newbies and inexperienced collectors will get burned again and again by buying rare coins raw, and watching GSC auctions alone for the past decade has proven this. GSC has a right to do whatever they want, they're not doing anything illegal, but they're being disingenuous, and that is why so many of us have a problem with them.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="tmoneyeagles, post: 2743817, member: 17557"]You just had an epiphany a few pages back that photos can look different based on the platform you view them on, so this probably isn't the best time to appeal to your own authority, in the form of your "keen critical eye." Ad hominem. [I]I for one am shocked.[/I] Paul has made hundreds of transactions on eBay and through the various coin forums over the past 10+ years. I've bought from him before and have never had a problem, he's professional from start to finish--[I]including providing accurate photographs of what his coins look like in hand.[/I] Gasp! Something that GSC doesn't do. This seems to be your favorite one-two punch, Kurt. Here we have another ad hominem. Yeah, he's a poker player. A damn good one too, we used to have weekly CoinTalk poker tournaments--he's wiped the floor with all of us who were apart of that group at one point or another. Before you start damning all us poker players, if I recall correctly it was Doug's idea to have the group in the first place. And referring to grown adult men as "kids" is priceless, especially ones who convey professionalism on a consistent basis in their postings and transactions. Another appeal to authority. That's a nice award, but it means nothing to us on a coin forum. As Paul stated, it's about the content you produce and how you approach and help others. I'd like to weave that idea into another ridiculous statement you've made, but I'm hesitant to say it's an appeal to authority because it's just so silly. "Not that anyone should give a rip"--then why even bring it up in the first place? But since you did, I'd like to expand on Paul's response. Likes were implemented relatively recently in CoinTalk history. (The site was founded around the turn of the century). Back when these forums were more lively with rich discussions, 2008-2010, CoinTalk had a "Thread/Topic of The Week" feature, where members of this forum could all nominate one thread per week to be TOTW. We also had an "Exhibit" thread series that ran in conjunction with this for a little while. Paul was a powerhouse in pumping out phenomenal educational threads that gave him TOTW honors quite a bit. Most of our old crew who could remember these times vividly are long gone, whether they be deceased, lost interest in the forum, or lost interest in collecting. So I'll speak for more than just myself here when I say that Paul has been fundamental in the numismatic education of a lot of us. If you want more proof you can feel free to dig up Paul's old threads and see how well he has been received over the years and the type of content he has produced. Moral of the story is "likes" don't mean anything; their most useful purpose is cutting down on people quoting a post and saying "I agree" or "+1" or "HAHAHA." What matters on this forum, and on any internet community, is what you have provided to the community, and Paul has taught hundreds of us over the years a thing or two about a thing or two. Conversely, and though I don't post as much as I used to I do lurk often, I cannot for the life of me think of one example of something you've posted that had me clicking "add to bookmarks." Now I'd like to delve into GSC a bit. They have an awful reputation on all the coin forums and for good reason: they're dishonest. It's always been that way. They give generic descriptions, blanket grades, conveniently angled photos, juiced photos (saturation, hue, B&W, contrast, etc. all out of whack), and plenty of weaselly disclaimers. And they have a history of being very lackadaisical in giving returns. Beginning collectors, as Paul has pointed out, will buy from them thinking they got a steal on a "GEM BU++" rare piece that grades XF45 at PCGS that forces them to learn a several hundred and even a several thousand dollar lesson. For years, members of all coin forums have told newbies to stay as far away as humanly possible, because GSC is the definition of too good to be true. Since we're on the topic of 1903 proof Morgans, let's look at some from GSC: Here's the one Paul provided a link to earlier: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/DruNhqq.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/FCcgObR.jpg[/IMG] The auction for the above coin was titled: "1903 Morgan Silver Dollar PROOF, Gorgeous Solid Gem PF++, Only 755 PR's Minted!" - 13 bidders - 30 bids - $2,200.00 sale price - Closed on 1/27/2017 - Feedback left by buyer: "Coin is fraud, cannot be graded by PCGS, do not buy raw coins, doctored photo."[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/8823AcC.jpg[/IMG] Here's another one: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/xuRka9J.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/vuGjV9f.jpg[/IMG] The auction for the above coin was titled: "1903 Morgan Silver Dollar, Deeply Toned Choice Gem PF++, Only 755 PR's Struck!" - 11 bidders - 38 bids - $2,767.43 sale price - Closed 4/18/2017 - Feedback left by buyer: "Item not as shown. No contact at all after return. Ebay had to step in to pay me" [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/QKoEA5s.jpg[/IMG] And here is the relist for it: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/oCtVtPh.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/J3Np38N.jpg[/IMG] The auction for the relist was titled: "1903 Morgan Silver Dollar, Deeply Toned PROOF, Choice Gem PF++, Just 755 PR Made" - 13 bidders - 22 bids - $1,731.00 sale price - Closed 5/12/2017 - (Couldn't find the feedback, either hasn't been left or was positive) And now we have the current auction at hand: [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/R6VngbV.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/wfB0X0x.jpg[/IMG] The auction for the above coin is titled: "1903 Morgan Silver Dollar, PROOF, Very Tough Gem PF++, Just 755 PR's Minted!" At the time of this post: - 6 bidders - 9 bids - $1,625.00 Now the first and fourth auctions could very well be the same coin; proof coins can give a lot of appearances in different lighting setups and camera angles. However, even though I don't think that those two coins are the same, [I]I [B][U]can't[/U][/B] give them the benefit of the doubt. [/I]GSC specializes in trying their absolute best to conceal problems on raw coins, problems that could hinder the coin's ability for it to be graded. (A stroll down GSC's feedback shows that, with the first auction in my post being a prime example). They've been doing this for years. It's suspicious to me when high volume sellers, that clearly do this for a living, do not send off coins that are higher value to TPGs. Newbies and inexperienced collectors will get burned again and again by buying rare coins raw, and watching GSC auctions alone for the past decade has proven this. GSC has a right to do whatever they want, they're not doing anything illegal, but they're being disingenuous, and that is why so many of us have a problem with them.[/QUOTE]
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