Why are toned coins so popular?

...I just don't get why it's so hard to convince people they might be better off in the long run avoiding GSC. I avoid any company in any industry with a 3.7 BBB rating...
https://www.bbb.org/central-texas/b...es/great-southern-coins-in-boerne-tx-90105638

 

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-sigh yourself-

As an eBay seller I can assure you that getting rid of negative reviews is NOT easy! (Not that I've ever received any!) However I have researched feedback issues on the eBay forum. eBay has some strange rules regarding feedback, and I can assure you that if it were easy to remove negatives then the few negatives that GSC has received would have been removed, don't you think?
Also, did you know that sellers are not allowed to leave anything but positive feedback for buyers? Even if they are non-payers, serial negative feedback leavers, etc.

 

Read my post above. I will buy from anyone if I think I can pick them, sometimes I miss but more often than not I hit when buying from a source I generally wouldn't consider. My collecting is done heavily online though, I can almost always spot scans vs pictures and recognize a lot of things done to pretty something up.

That said you talk about how your mission with the ANA is education. In this instance your concern should be the education of people that don't have the skill to see what's been done to pictures or new buyers that just do not know better through no fault of their own. While I am comfortable trusting my skills I would never recommend someone new nor a lot of people who assume pictures are always real life representations.

I don't think anyone has denied that you can find good stuff there, the problem is most people would get lost in the haystack before they find the needle.

 

FWIW, you could not PAY ME ENOUGH to take that Monstrosity Morgan off your hands.

 

It is for large sellers. And yes I am well aware sellers can only leave positives making seller feedback worthless.

You do know the massive sellers have separate deals than the casual sellers right?

 

Yes I guess I can imagine that low a level of picture awareness, but it's difficult for me. Over 40 years experience in the photo game is hard to turn off.

 

Yes, but then by your own logic, you say GSC is a massive seller, right? If so why don't they get rid of the few negatives that they get if it's so easy? Up until the day that they screw me over (at which time I will ask for, and get, a refund) I will continue to trust them, but I will be extra cautious going forward after reading this thread. I'm not doubting you, just pointing out that some of your logic is flawed. YRMV.

 

Interesting, in some Morgans you can get striations caused by the draw table as the metal was thinned to make the planchets. If it results in a peeling lamination PCGS will certify them as a certified error.

 

All true, and that is what drives many collectors to collect. It is much more than just filling a hole in an album, or should be. When this isn't the case it has often become collecting/investing which is a different deal. Both have their place, but different.

 

A truly stunning collection and I was not surprised that it brought significant premiums. There are a lot of toned Morgan collectors and I have my share. But I think I need to give them all a catchy name to get them a little respect.
I think I saw this lady at Woodstock in a tie dyed tee shirt.

 

Wow, pot, meet kettle. The most pompous, and opinionated member I have seen on this site, has spoken. We all need to change our collecting preferences to conform to the "Numismatic Royalty" that is V.K.B. Even the "thought" of vkb spreading his biases to others makes me cringe. Toot your own horn, and belittle all who don't share your beliefs/taste all you want, but know that there are some on this site that can see you for what you truly are.

 

Keep watching and learn.

 

Please educate us all with your content...

 

Now the argument is that we're picking on little ole' GSC who never hurt nobody?

Give me a break. Several of us in this thread have come together to explain that they're disingenuous at the very least, and that they have a history of torching new numismatists. It's best to stay away unless you're experienced, and even then, experienced collectors still stay away.

It's not some CoinTalk Old Guard Groupthink; we're not set in our ways and stubborn because of jealousy or some personal vendetta against GSC. The members of all numismatic internet communities despise GSC because of their business practices and reputation, and even with 99.8% positive feedback on eBay, their reputation is still not very good.

In ten years of posting and reading on half a dozen coin forums, the posts on the past ten or so pages in this thread from only two members are the most pro-GSC I've ever seen; as if the jury is not out on GSC yet. I'm legitimately amazed.

And another tidbit to throw out because perhaps people have misunderstood what either myself or Paul have been saying: in regards to GSC, we never made the claim that the coin pictured isn't the coin you'll receive. The claim we're making is that the picture itself has been taken and edited in such a way to conceal things that are more obvious in hand. Depending on how drastically this is done, it could appear that the coin in hand is nothing like the photograph, which is a claim that has been made with frequency from many collectors over the years.

 

Building on that intermediate numismatist theme , I like it.

 

Read that line back again. How can that possibly be on the "source of all knowledge, the Internet"?

Before you get your knickers in a twist, I'm making an important inquiry here. Is crowdsourcing a reputation a valuable thing or not? It seems a key attribute of Internet culture, no?

But now, we have a more elite (and remember, I have no negative connotation in that word, unlike most. I actually LIKE both elites AND elitists.) set of numismatist Internet Division leaders, which top CTers are, saying, "No, ignore that 99.8 rating, we know better."

What? Huh? That sounds like a conundrum to me. And if it's true big volume guys can scrub their feedback, that's an eBay problem, and maybe we need to not trust eBay AT ALL.

I've never held myself out to be smarter than 99.8% of people. 99.4% was my all time top, and that was before my stroke. I don't think I can top 99.1% any more.

 

Re: your last point. I can't speak for anyone else but what I am saying is more than "same coin". I'm saying when the coin comes to my PO Box, and I hold the coin next to the picture on eBay, OFTEN, not always, the coin looks nicer than the picture. To be clear, that's most often the case when I buy proof singles from '36-'42. Less often with biz strikes. Everyone knows, or should, that older proofs' looks are so angle dependent.

 

While we certainly have strayed from the original topic of toned coins, I admit to a fascination with the discussion about GSC. I think it deserves its own thread.

While I don't have time at the moment to set this up with a proper introduction, I think many of us (and newer collectors) would benefit from a precise study of GSC's photos compared to the actual coins received.

I have bought from them about four times now, and I downloaded their photos for each purchase. If I was disappointed when I saw the coin, the fault was not with the photos, but with my ability to interpret them. The information was all there for me.

We could make this another opportunity for teaching. We could compare their photos detail by detail to the actual coins, using our own photos with varying lighting and exposures.

We should also discuss the differences in their photos on different devices. I think their photos are consistent, accurate, and not doctored, if for no other reason than that's too time-consuming for their volume of sales. (I would use a fixed setup and just pop each coin in front of the camera for a quick shot and go on to the next.)

I think education is key here; we also need to learn what we are talking about by examining and proving the accusations that are made.

 

Always wanting to continuously learn the rights from the wrongs. Please keep us posted. Even the proper photo techniques would be a huge help.

 

I'm seeing one fly in the ointment. There is a VERY negative visceral reaction to GSC among the "inside crowd" here on CT that goes all the way up to the head moderator. I at least see no likelihood they'd participate in such a scholarly exercise, and MAY NOT even TOLERATE it if its findings conflict with that in their already made up minds. (This is my single biggest complaint with CoinTalk's "culture"(???).) "Wir sind die Götter des Internet Numismatik" fairly oozes from every pore of the regular crowd here. Maybe I'm being unnecessarily harsh on them. Let's let them tell us.