Why are so many ancients so far off center?

Here is another off-center coin from the same series as the one I posted previously - but not nearly as much off the flan:

RIC V (2), Carausius, Antoninianus, No. 34


IMP C MAXIMIANVS P AVG .............................................. PAX AVGGG | S P
M L XXXI in reverse exergue

Cuirassed, radiate, bust
London Mint.
Struck by Carausius in the name of Maximian Herculius (Maximianus).
3.95 gm.

 

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Some series are known for being off centre. I am thinking specifically of 2 types of Julius Caesar denarii-the elephant denarii and the portrait coins. For the latter, the speculation has been that the coins were produced in a hurry by the mints of the day and that this led to many off centre strikes.

Here is my example of the elephant denarius with quite an off centred strike.

Now here is an example where one might expect an off entered strike, but instead we see a well centred coin (as compared to others of this type) on both the obverse and the reverse. As a result the lettering and devices that are sometimes off the flan are visible on this coin.

 

Tetricus II off center antoninianus. Quite crude in fact, almost a barbarous imitation.

 

The funny part is I bought it from High Ratings, Low Prices. I don't know how many others have bought and sold it. I paid $175 which I do not consider all that cheap since the GGG is not bold and the mintmark is missing. I am not shrewd. I am cheap.


The one below is mine, too. I almost passed it due to the GGG being off flan and the surface problems but I decided it was worth the $125 York Coins was asking. There was no haggling on it.

IMP C MAXIMIANVS P AVG .............................................. PAX AVGGG | S P
M L XXXI in reverse exergue


I am not driven to own any coin at any price. Many of the coins I have bought in the last 30 years would be lucky to bring what I paid mostly because many dealers think they need to double their money on each sale. I liked Tom Cederlind as someone to talk to at shows but we rarely came to agreement on prices. I rarely even asked since the shows always had more coins than I could afford at prices I considered reasonable from other sellers. Oddly, at almost every show I would buy at least one coin from someone at a price they set (no wheeling and dealing) that I would have paid more for if necessary. What makes a coin appeal to me may be different than what makes a coin appeal to you and a thousand other collectors. That is why I hate questions on CT that include "What's it worth?" Most of these coins are not worth anything to 90% of the people at the coin show (they buy proof sets and bullion?) and it is a lot easier to find someone willing to tell you a coin is valuable than it is to find someone who actually will pay all that for it. I'm like that, too. I have too many coins now so I don't feel as driven to buy now like I did a decade or three ago. That said, I would love to have more of the Carausius coins struck for his 'brothers' and I hope the next ones have better centering. I really prefer coins with everything on flan. I like the Antony below despite it being well off center. It is hard to find everything on flan AND this off center!

 

The didn't have craftman pliers back then

 

I'm guessing the guys swinging the hammers were TEMPS

 

Here are a few greeks that are way off center.

 

I want to thank each and everyone of you for displaying those less then perfect coins. Your the true collectors. These are the coins you just gotta have. It's like catching a fish. It might not be the biggest. But i got one and now i happy as a clam

 

3rd shift coins are the off center ones. Or weekends. Trying to be cute. Your point is well thought. I agree

 

I like your coins mike. Can see your really trying to build a nice collection. Mike. I'm on a tablet. Can you send a better picture of your icon coin.

 

Have been wondering for awhile what the hell you got there. Any info

 

Yeah. And i really like that coin. Caught my eye. Then i said WHAT. WHY. @Marsyas Mike

 

That one kool. Thanks. Nice detail. Super

 

I can't seem to find a photo of the obverse, but here is my avatar in all its worn-smooth glory:



I have some nicer ones, but this was my first, and I'm always kind of fond of my firsts.

 

Don't know about Rome – but the account of early Moghul mints (Akbar) show that the guy who placed the flan between the dies was paid a pittance, but the guy who swung the hammer - nothing at all.

It appears the guy who placed the flan had to hire the hammer man off the street, and pay him (perhaps just in food?) out of his own wage.

It occurs to me that if the two found they did not to get on too well, the guy who placed the flan might start to regret his choice, and worry more about keeping his fingers, with centering the flan becoming a rather secondary matter…..

(No reason to suppose all slaves were best mates either)

Rob T

 

What's this worth - wholesale and retail?

View attachment 984503

 

Here a coin with a quite off center incuse punch. I am quite surprised about this, wasn't the incuse mark created by the punch which was struck to force the blank into the obverse die? If the incuse punch is off center it would create much more force on one side of the coin, but on this example the obverse looks nicely and evenly struck. No idea, perhaps because the coin is so small that a off center punch wouldn't matter.

Byzantion, Thrace ½ Siglos (340–320 B.C.)
Obverse: Heifer standing left on dolphin left, ΠY above.
Reverse: Incuse punch of mill-sail pattern.
Reference: SNG BM Black Sea 36–41; SNG Stancomb 14; SNG Copenhagen 478–9.
Weight: 2.06g
Size: 13mm

 

http://www.vroma.org/images/mcmanus_images/indexcoins.html

 

Thanks Kentucky. Looks like these two guys get along OK (joke)

Actually the Carisius denarius suggests that probably yes - McManus is correct that the flan placer was so concerning about this fingers that he used a pair of tongs.

http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/sear5/s0447.html

But I think that leads to a solution in the same ball park - the loss of dexterity in using tongs would very likely increase miss hits

Rob T

 

I'll bet getting the weight of the planchet in tolerance was more important than what it looked like. After all, the design indicated the lump of metal was "OK" (just like the first ancient coins - (?) Lydians.) if most of it were showing, that's all that was needed.