Why are most world coins relatively cheap?

The term "World Coins" is far, far too broad.

Coins from UK, Norway, Russia, France, Germany, Italy, Denmark, Switzerland, are in that category, and there are plenty of expensive coins in that group.

Common for all those countries is that they have a fairly large population with money to spend on something COMPLETELY USELESS, like obsolete coins.

I paid 1000 $ for this one. That's not "cheap". Grade about VF+:

 

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Agreed. 6 billion people, thousands of years of commerce...

 

Well said.

Even within the US series, one finds anomalies. Narrow it down all the way to US Patterns. By pattern standards, the $4 Stella 1879 FH has a very high mintage. Yet it has an astronomical price tag relative to other patterns (for several reasons). Same is true of the 1856 Flying Eagle cent.

 

Great thread, i just finished a three month study of this subject, posted the short form presentation this weekend on slideshare.
I investigated five aspects that contribute to a coins market value. The concept of market value is also very interesting and a current in development project.
Five areas investigated:
Historical Significance
Content
Rarity
Preservation
Demand

Each area can influence price, and there are some examples where each influence point is dominant, but overall only demand really drives the price. In this discussion thread there was commentary about the current fascination with minute flaws, magnification and light angle needed to see the detail, currently toned coins demand premiums, where as just a few years ago, neither of these made for premium prices, in fact at one time both were detractors!

There are many case studies I found, and over the next few months, I will be putting them in an article.

But the short answer; demand
The long answer;what generates the demand?

 

It's not that difficult as I may think - people that have money and want a piece of "souvenir".

From what I see, a distinctive point of change in the market is when a developing country that used to export a lot of goods is starting to be prosperous makes some people in these country to spend more money as they have the wealth. For instance Russian, Chinese and Indian coin market. I think they are very good examples.

Also, you got to factor in patriotrism - Russians do illustrate this very well.

Afterall, it's money that drive prices up and down.

 

I understand GD's point on you have to have supply to get the demand started but why aren't there more world collectors outside of the U.S. to get things kickstarted?

The only other country I know of where coins are more expensive than equivalent dated/rarity U.S. coins is Japan.

 

Historical Significance is a big demand factor to me when I'm buying for my 'general' collection. If I am looking for a single or few coins to represent a period/place, I strongly prefer a name that rings a bell. For Americans, old Spanish coins mean more if they were issued by the rulers that sent Columbus to 'discover'. For readers, a coin of just any Islamic ruler might take second place to one by Harum al Rashid of 1001 Nights fame. Julius Caesar ourdraws most Romans but Caesar Augustus and Nero outsell people much more rare who issued coins much more beautiful.

Content often comes to play only when we flirt with melt value. A few years back when the Hunt brothers were playing games with silver. More than one coin dealer found it impossible to keep up with the rush and marked prices in spot+ a price for a specific coin to prevent bust half dollars from selling as bullion. Of course there are those of us who would like to own a Roman gold coin and are willing to pay a bit for an aureus worn slick and holed just because it is the only gold ancient we are likely to afford.

Rarity means nothing to 99% of collectors. There are unique coins out there and few who care.

Preservation has become such a big thing. I wonder how many collectors even know that the theory that started the numerical ratings was based on a perfect coin being worth 70 times the price of a slick. Some coins still sell for only 10 times as much in EF as in G but I suspect Mr. Sheldon would be shocked at the difference between MS67 and MS66. I'll be shocked if that situation doesn't change in another 50 years. Had he known the progress of the 50 years after his book, he might have named it 'Grading Whimsey' rather than 'Penny Whimsey'. William H. Sheldon was an interesting guy in several respects. How many fat and lazy coin collectors know who invented the term 'endomorph'?

Demand is the name of the game. My favorite story is from the auction where a coin with only three known failed to sell since only two people cared and they both had one. The same coin a week later might sell for thousands if only two more people got interested.

I suggest one more thing: Legitimacy. Some of us only collect 'real' coins. Others accept patterns, contemporary counterfits, reissues, commemoratives and bullion made to be collected but never actually involved in trade. Demand for a rare 'real' coin usually outpaces a token equal in other respects.

dfraser: Agree, great thread! Is your presentation available to us?

 

What is a "slick"? Is that a coin at face value?

 

And what would they collect - "world" coins? Most collectors do focus on a specific region or country. Somebody from around here who is interested in German or European coinage is likely to ignore African or Asian coins. An Indian collector will not be terribly interested in euro pieces, and so on.

Theoretically I could say that I collect euro coins and world coins too. But when it comes to the latter, I am only interested in specific world coins - say, modern American and British pieces. And frankly, I do not need a "kick start". If things over here got as they are in the US, I would collect something else, I think.

Christian

 

I'm just saying that Why don't folks from their respective countries collect percentage wise like Americans. This would drive the prices of world coins up right?

 

That's one that has worn flat, usually a P1, and at most an FR2. An AG3 will typically have at least some small raised surface features.

 

In most cases collectors are middle class and higher and this applies everywhere. There are exceptions like Costa Rica where there are many poor collectors but these are notable. While now days most of the world is catching us in the percentages of those in the middle class this was not true a few decades ago. In those days middle class was largely about people in this country. This meant most collecting of all coins was happening here and prices were largely set by what Americans would pay.

The coins are still here disproportionately but the demand in their home markets just keeps ratcheting higher and as their currencies strenghten relative ours it means more and more that world coin prices are set elsewhere.

This is especially noticeable in modern coins where prices are exploding higher. (even though Krause doesn't always recognize this). Coins that were rare but had no demand are now getting demand in their home countries. Coins like the 1957 Greek 2D or E German 1950-E 10p are selling for hundreds of dollars. Even coins considered common like the Irish 1982 50P are bringing big prices. Modern French is reportedly up by about a factor of ten in the last couple years.

It's truly becoming a world market with collectors in the old world buyinmg their own coins and often those issued by former colonies as well. There are many nations that have been increasing their wealth and middle class though some of these have been hard hit in recent months because of overdependence on a single export.

But you have to believe that countries like Iceland are going to be coming back strong and when they do so too will their middle class and coin demand.

 

Possibly so, maybe not. See an earlier reply of mine here http://www.cointalk.com/t66429/#post670977 So 200+ years of having the same country and the same currency sure helps when it comes to the US market and US coinage.

And as I wrote, here in Germany there are many collectors (no idea about percentages, neither in the US nor here) but it is easier to "define" one's collecting area, due to the many changes. Then again, if people in Euroland are perfectly willing to pay more than €1,000 for a 2 euro coin (Monaco 2007), there is hope, as you may say. Sure, US collectors would pay even more if that was a US coin. But even that amount I find deterring. That is why I hope the market here won't get "crazy" the American way.

Christian

 

It's true that alot of world coins are cheaper in price but there's a whole lot to consider here. First of all alot of the US coinage was made of silver and alot of it is higher quality but not always the case. Sure demand and marketing plays a huge part as well.

To me the bottom line is beauty, and that is still in the eye of the beholder. I've seen some ancient coins and to be totally honest I miss the beauty and passion completely. Luckily my view on ancients doesn't govern the market. I see some coinage from Hispanic areas or Asia that I just have to have even if they're not made of silver. It also has alot to do with how one started collecting coins in the first place. Say if Grandpa collected US coins and that's how you started, maybe that's the way you will end up. Me, I look at all different coins from all different countries and when ever I see a coin I like, then I usually get it. I guess that's why I have a hodge podge collection.

 

Shhh! :whistle:


Don't tell anyone about the great value still to be found in (certified!) 19th century and earlier European silver and gold coins. Some are selling barely over bullion prices.

So while your friends are collecting the highest graded modern state quarters , you can still begin a nice collection of 19th century European issues.

I'm sure old-timers can tell you a time when there wasn't such a large premium placed on even common older American gold coins. It is only a matter of time before the growing middle class in Europe drives up demand on these coins.


guy

 

Heck Bart, Many times I have gotten MS65 examples of Euro gold coins for less than meltdown. And I am not talking about restrikes !! Just seems many folks just will not take the time to learn about old non American coins. Well, thats their loss and my gain. Coins below all gotten below meltdown including the Madrid mint Piece of 8. :kewl: Traci (California, USA)

 

It depends on what you mean by "old". If you're talking pre-1838, then NO you cannot find anyone who can tell you a time they could be had for anywhere near melt.

 

Congrats on some lovely coins :thumb:

What's wrong with that ? Folks have an area of interest. If that's US only, that's perfectly fine. If that's only US copper cents dated 1794, that too is perfectly fine.

Is folks prefer only Italian coins, more power to 'em.

Nice coins, all. I have gotten MS/PR69 US gold for melt and sometimes below.

Maybe you can sell 'em for more than you paid. Or not. Who knows ?

 

I enjoy them 900. I feel like i know a big secret at times. Anyway I do have some nice American Gold. here is a nice 1/2 Eagle. Sorry for the poor quality photos, I was still learning about coin photography when these were taken. :computer: Traci