Why are grades so different even among the same graders?

I've been a member here for 7 years. I don't post that much but read other posts.

It drives me nuts when I go and look at coin shows and see so much oddities among coins that are rated by the same experts (the rating agencies).

I like Morgans. I see many MS60 (or higher) coins which need to be an AU50.

I don't complain in public but keep my money in my pocket. And BTW, I never sell anything.

 

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It has to do with the subjectivity of grading... Sometimes, marks will bother me more on a certain coin. Sometimes, toning makes me like a coin better, and other times, it distracts me from the detail or luster. Grading depends on many factors, which is why a variety of grades is said for the same coin on guess the grade threads.

 

It’s subjectivity and it’s also that thera are a bunch of different grading scales.

 

Could we see a couple examples of these ms60 you believe should be AU50? ...I guess you are exaggerating for emphasis because that is quite the swing.

 

Yeah I agree that you wouldn't see that great of a disparity from one of the top grading services. A better example is low MS coins (62,63), that should be AU-55 or AU-58.

 

That was my first thought as well. If it’s not an exaggeration I would say that anyone who is consistently grading MS coins as a 50 needs to brush up on their own skills

 

There is quite a difference between MS60 and AU50. Many times MS60 can look worse than AU50. Typically MS60 looks like a wet dog.

 

Dave has nailed it... the flow is NOT AU53 < AU55 < AU58 < MS60 < MS61 < MS62 < MS63

An AU58 is more like a NICE MS63 with the tiniest bit of rub. And an AU55 is an MS62 with rub. Ish. YMMV of course.

MS60 is definitely a dog. I'd usually prefer an honest AU53 even over an MS60. MS61 is a nicer dog. But still a dog. Well behaved and all that. But still...

 

I can not go to a coin show and start taking pictures.

I agree that it is a big swing. It's why that I am complaining.

It's due to my view. I see AU-50 (with slight wear) as shown as MS-60 (or above) which has no trace of wear but with a few little marks.

Some show a MS-60 with a worn hair lines and/or wear of the Eagle's breast which is clearly a AU-50 or below.

I'll get some pictures posted here.

 

It is like dealing with several real estate appraisers, appraising the same house!

 

I’d uoure talking about dealer graded inventory all bets are off it could be whatever. If you’re talking about legitimate tpg graded coins you’re very lively confusing striking issues with wear.

Ms 60 has a heck of a lot more than a few little marks as well

 

I don't claim to be an expert, which I am not but my personal feelings is that the difference is a grader's pride. Even they know a coin might be an AU-50 they will grade it a higher or even a lower grade. NO ONE, and I mean no one tells him or her what to grade a coin. He or she is the expert; you don't like it go to someone else. This is their mentality. If they would grade a coin according to it's merits then we would all have less problems grading the "coin" and not the TPG's. The main reason I say this is because an top three TPG company representative (grader) that was at a Hawaii coin show back in 2002-2005 told me this. The TPG's don't like each other very much and will purposely graded a coin harder (than it actually is) or lower to maintain a certain "status" in the industry. I know some may not agree with me and that is OK but after a few years in this industry I can see where there is merits to this claim. This is just my personal opinion. Thanks.

 

I completely understand where you are coming from. The gentleman that I had the conversation with said the same thing; but he said it is not always what it seems on the surface. There is a strong rivalry between TPG's. Just look at the difference between pricing on two identical coins with identical grades. If they were graded accordingly and the way there suppose to be graded why are the prices not the same? Personally, I believe that NGC has surpassed PCGS in the last 10 years directly from watching the strict grades they give. But that is my personal opinion; nothing more. I believe that regardless of "Who" tells the TPGs graders what and how to grade coins that there is a prestige factor / pride competition between the top TPG's.


*Edit....when I said "NO ONE, and I mean no one tells him or her what to grade a coin" I meant the individual that has the last say on what grades are given for that particular coin.

 

I've been a gold and silver coin hobby enthusiast for many years.

I was just now looking at the graded coins although I have always bought ungraded (I looked at the coin carefully). I saw so much "lenient" grading that it completely turned me to completely ignore them.

I think they are shooting themselves in the foot with "grade inflation". JMO.

 

If that were completely true, SEGS and basement slabbers would rule the industry.
... I'm still waiting for some examples of these MS60-61 in AU50 and lower holders.. Great claims require great evidence.

 

I have a light box for old revolvers (one of three hobbies). I have no current ability to post a detailed picture of a smaller silver coin with the details required for your question.

I could build one, but I have never sold any coins. The capital gains tax on a collectible coin is very high for a person that is a hobbyist. Now, a person that makes a living has a whole new set of rules and obligations (lower taxes is one).

I know this is subjective. I know the negatives are high for a professional.

This is the best that I can do on a 1882cc:


Another Carson City (1978cc):


I knew the first one was better. I knew the second one was a first year issue.

They are more than AU50 but surely less than MS62. Both came naked to me, but I had to have them due to the mint marks. They both look nice under my microscope.

I see graded ones going for X2 on eBay.