Who's that girl?

Bought the second coin a bit ago due to the many breasted goddess Artemis of Ephesus and to compliment my other larger breasted Artemis of Ephesus (I hope I worded that boobily)


Aurelian
Pisidia. Kremna AD 270-
275.
Bronze Æ 32mm., 14,18g.
Laureate, draped and
cuirassed bust right / Facing
statue of Artemis Ephesia,
with supports. nearly very
fine Cf. Von Aulock, Pisidien
II 1621-3.
Ex Savoca London

and cannot figure out whom her friend is?
Venus? Another Artemis?? Apollo is her twin and he'd probably look great with beasts! (Though its hard to tell if the statue to the right has jubblies or not)
Anyboob, the coin:

Faustina II. (147-175 AD) . AE
Condition: Very Fine
Weight: 4,48 gr
Diameter: 19,00 mm
Ex: Ares



Please help if you can, share ideas and all the coins of this unique statue!

 

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Geez Ryro, that isn't the first time you've bought a coin out from under me! I've been wanting one of these Pisidian Aurelians for a while. They're the latest reasonably obtainable Roman provincial coins (not counting the special case of Roman Egypt). Provincials exist for Tacitus too, but those are ridiculously rare.

Thankfully I managed to snag one in a group lot so I won't have pay you a visit with my kneecap cracker. Coincidentally mine has Artemis's bro on it:


Looks like an obverse die match to yours too!

I gather the standard view now is that Ephesian Artemis's, uh, thingies, are in fact bull testicles, derived from sacrifices to her. Apparently the originator of this idea actually reconstructed it with the real thing ... and the resemblance was exact. (Some info here: https://www.livius.org/articles/religion/artemis-of-ephesus/ .)

 

Firstly- I kneed my knees! For running, for beging my wife for things and for anything to do with standing, really.
B: if I inadvertently step on your toes, it is surely that, "great minds think alike." (To this statement from myself to one of the most intelligent minds I've ever enjoyed myself said, "That or, fools never differ." Good stuff
3; It does look like a match! Though, yours has that BEAuuuutiful patina. What's up with the weak strike or light engraving from the celator on our fun portraits?
4.1- Fantastic action hero Apollo reverse!
4|5th, And in leu of bull testicles, 2 COINS FOR SALE! JK
Lastly, you never answered the question. On my new coin's reverse, what the heck is going on?!?

 

Say what?! That's not what the mysterious poet with the pseudonym of Senex Caecilius has to say about it!

The Artemision

Higgledy-Piggledy
Temple of Artemis,
Wonder of Wonders, in
Ephesus stood;
Housed in the shrine was a
Multimammiferous
Symbol of fruitfulness
Carved out of wood.

Here's my provincial of Faustina II with a similar cult statue from the Artemision in Neapolis.


Faustina II, AD 147-175.
Roman provincial Æ 19.8 mm, 5.32 g.
Samaria, Neapolis, AD 161/162.
Obv: ΦΑVCΤЄΙΝΑΝ CΕΒΑCΤΗΝ, bare-headed and draped bust, right.
Rev: ΦΛ ΝЄΑC ΠΟΛЄѠC CVΡ ΠΑΛЄ, cultus-statue, resembling Ephesian Artemis, standing facing, flanked by stags; her head-dress surmounted by small temple; across field, ЄΤ-Ϟ (= year 90 of the Era of Neapolis = AD 161/162).
Refs: RPC IV.3 6348; BMC 68-69; SNG Cop 17; cf. Sear 1801; cf Wiczay 6204.

As to the identity of the two figures on the reverse of @Ryro 's Faustina provincial, I have no idea. I'd ask @Jochen1 ; he's our resident expert on mythological types.

 

Wonderful Artemis!
And agreed, to much history promoting the multi mam Sit-eeation. You could hold a bunch of water balloons standing like that and it'd look the same. She was made for a society that needed children... fast. So, they altered the more outdoorsy independent goddess for a more inviting and matronly figure
And @Jochen1 has forgotten more about ancient Greek and Roman mythology than I'll ever know. And I LOVE Greek and Roman mythology.
I would greatly appreciate someone of his immense understanding in the identities of the two cult statues on there reverse of my second posted coin?

 

So, from multimammiferous to multitesticular? Oookay. Anyway, two fantastic coins, @Ryro! The new one with the twin cult statues is fascinating. It sure looks like identesticle statues standing side by side, but I've no idea why that would be, or even where the coin may be from. A quick search on RPC online didn't throw up anything remotely similar. I hope someone comes up with some clues.

 

Well played, my man!
Thanks for checking! AC search only provided a different ruler with similar and only slightly better reverse and had it described as Artemis & Aphrodite (?). I sure hope we can figure this mystery out. Though part of the allure of ancients is never knowing some things...I think we can figure this one out

 

The only thing even remotely similar when I search RPC for "Faustina Artemis" is this one -- which is not it.

 

Easy solution: check with me before bidding. On anything whatsoever. Or if that's too much trouble, maybe just send me your wins! Yeah, perfect.

A lot of 'em seem to be like that. I guess Kevin was like, "Quittin' time soon - why bother?"

Erm, that's because I don't have the first clue. But like some politicians I know, I am always game to propose a totally ignorant hypothesis when invited!! OK, here goes. After extensive research (Wikipedia) I have determined that there was a second cult statue in the temple: Artemis Protothronia. So I say: it's Artemis x 2.

Since Senex appears to live in Texas, I'm thinking the poem may be tad anachronistic?

Take a look:

If you guys think those are breasts, I think you are spending way too much time with your coins, and not enough time with... other things. Just just for starters, breasts have these things called "nipples" on them. (There are some websites where you can check this if it's not something too familiar. )

 

I dunno about the various theories on what they might have been intended to portray on the original...

But, these look like breastesses to moi.


The Goddess of Nature
c. 1529
Marble
Musée National du Château, Fontainebleau

This stand for an antique vase was designed by Tribolo. The attributes of Artemis of Ephesus have been adopted in highly explicit terms to create a Goddess of Nature.

Sixteenth-century French artists emphasized the link between nature and femininity in the polymast (many-breasted) figure of the goddess Nature, often depicted with many breasts, and draped in plants and many animals. A telling example is the polymast statue of Nature by Tribolo, designer of the Boboli Gardens, sent to François I around 1529 for the Palace of Fontainebleau.





BTW, if you're ever in Paris, and wanting to visit a nearby Chateau affiliated with the former Kings and Queens of France(other than the Louvre)... Skip Versailles and the onslaught of touristic crowds, and hit up Chateau Fontainebleau. The much less frequented 'hunting lodge' with its' much longer/varied history is a fantastic gem worth visiting.

The day that we were there, I swear that there was only a few other individual couples touring the entire place. We had whole chambers and galleries to ourselves for most of our time there.

Pleasant as opposed to this:

 

I wonder if the 16th century statue was based on a misinterpretation of the ancient Artemis. Multimammary seems the most logical and intuitive interpretation of that statue. But I have also read that those round objects are actually meant to resemble eggs. A strange reading, I know. But both are designed to imply fertility.

 

Seeing this, I can't help but think of the original Total Recall movie...

 

You and me too.

 

@Ryro - an interesting rare mystery coin. What are the boxes or archways around your goddesses on the reverse? aediculae?

Being an RR guy - this is this first coin that came to mind, "triple-bodied image of Diana Nemorensis in front of a cypress grove".


My best guess is "Aphroditai Kastnietides" as seen on RPC 3390 and RPC 6279

Searching RPC for "Aphroditai Kastnietides", these all seem to come from one city:
City: Aspendus (ΑϹΠƐΝΔΙΩΝ) Region: Pamphylia Province: Lycia-Pamphylia

And here are some other speculative, poorly supported to completely unsupported ideas

• The reverse shows Osirus and Isis of Canopus as with this coin.
  
• The reverse shows two female figures as attendants to support Faustina II in the afterlife. Faustina died in Halala, in southern Capadoccia, in the winter of AD 175. She was on campaign with Marcus Aurelius. A Roman coin that suggest something like this, a medallic sestertius here
  
  
• Core and Artemis of Ephesus as with this coin, or this coin, this seems unlikely as Core and Artemis don't look at all alike
  
• Apollo and Artemis cult statues - like the RPC example from @Roman Collector - Apollo doesn't look like Artemis - here's another example.
  
  
• Artemis and Marnas a provincial expression of this this coin of Faustina and Lucilla - also seems unlikely to me
  
  
• The reverse show Artemis with Faustina deified, although no evidence or coin to support such a possibility.
  
• The reverse shows deified Faustina I and Faustina II as a cult of two Faustina's was encouraged by Marcus Aurelius (no evidence or coin to offer here), an interesting article from Mattingly (1948) here.

Any way you look at it an interesting and mysterious coin!

Addendum: an article with info on the class of "chained goddesses" who are "found by the score in the western and southern parts of Asia Minor" : Merkelbach, R. (1978). The Girl in the Rosebush: A Turkish Tale and Its Roots in Ancient Ritual. Harvard Studies in Classical Philology, 82, 1-15

 

..kool koins Ryro!.....

 

..my favorite 'who's that girl' is by Madonna....^^(listening to it right now)

 

For me it was Eccentrica Gallumbits. Any Hitchhiker's fans out there?

 

Lol, no. Read it twice, and saw the flick. bored me to tears,

 

What spectacular replies! Total Recall (written by, one of my all time fav sci-fi writers, Philip K Dick)



, Hitchhiker's guide... (written by Douglas Adams, another sci-fi fav!)



, like a dozen theories on my coin's reverse (though I may be leaning towards @Severus Alexander's 2 Artemii).
Speaking of, Sev, great and hilarious response! Though, you should probably send me a list of all the coins you have your eyes on in upcoming auctions. That way when I get one out from under ya, I will know not to post it here Also, I followed your advices and googled nipples. These things are amazing! My wife's been holding out! That said, much like the eggs idea, I don't find this to be a deal breaker as the nippleless bosoms may be symbolic. Don't take my dreams away from me
Thanks for the tip @Herodotus! I always wanted to go..but after seeing your pic I now realize that Versailles might not be as fun as it is glamorous.
I had the same thought @Gavin Richardson. Is it a case of wishful thinking?
@Justin Lee , "Makes me wish I had 3 hands!"
@Sulla80, what a STUNNING triple-bodied image of Diana Nemorensis! Now that I have picked my jaw up off the floor, I was under the impression that the structures around the statues were supports. However, now that I have googled aediculae (look at you guys! You have me googling ancient Roman structures, nipples what are friends for?) and I sure think you are right.
Thanks so much for hunting down these examples! Some of these are to kill for
For Mon@ominus1 thalymus:

 

I think this idea must be right. The reverse legend fits, too. It must be Aspendos!

But who is on the obverse? The only matching hairstyle I can find is this one, on a coin sold by Naumann back in 2014:

They attribute it to Fulvia, of all people, I guess based on what looks to be an initial Φ in the obverse legend. The next letters are definitely OVΛ. Maybe the apparent Φ in the obverse legend is really an I with a couple corrosion bumps. So who is it, then? The type exists for Augustus, so it could be Livia. On the other hand, the legends for the Augustus types don't match very well and the style looks later. If yours is the same as this Naumann example I'm really not sure who it could be.

Overall your portrait is so very Faustina II though that if I had to bet I'd say yours is an unlisted(?) Faustina II Aspendos. @zumbly, can you find it in any of your references?