The one line of reasoning here that I can't agree with is the apparent belief that John Albanese started CAC because he saw a way to make a lot of money off collectors. If he really wanted to do that, he could have gone about it a lot of different ways, including by grading modern coins, which would be rather low-hanging fruit. Isn't it possible he started CAC as a measure to help deal with the amount of overgraded or C coins that tend to pull down the prices of A or B coins? I like grading coins, I am getting better all the time and learning from others (including here), but I don't see why people begrudge me the added assurance that a CAC sticker provides, particularly for the few higher-priced coins I might buy a year. I don't think I have made a single purchase because of a CAC sticker on a slab but I have viewed it as a nice bonus/assurance when it is there.
I could not have said it better myself. His intentions had nothing to do with gouging the coin collecting society for $10 grading fees. Although I am sure that he wants the CAC to be profitable and successful, the impact that CAC sticker has on a coins liquidity is much more important than the grading fee. Coin dealers need to be able to move their inventory constantly. The CAC sticker gives added confidence to the collecting public and greatly improves liquidity as well as finally creating a stable sight unseen market. I have purchased a coin because of the CAC sticker. If you would like to read more about the story, please click on the following link. Here is a photo of the coin: 1942-P Jefferson Nickel NGC PF66 CAMEO CAC. http://boards.collectors-society.co...131406&Words=&topic=0&Search=true#Post2486594 For anyone who says that the sticker drives the price of the coin up, I have this response. I can count the number of times I have paid price guide for a coin. The coins I collect are all about eye appeal and in order to attain them, you almost always have to pay a premium to obtain them. If you are unwilling to pay above CDN or Numismedia wholesale, then respectfully, your collection will be comprised mostly of coins that will never get a CAC sticker in the first place. Everyone needs to stop being slaves to the price guides and start deciding for yourself how much the coin is worth to you. Once you start doing that, you will never be able to blame the CAC sticker for the premium. It is all about the coin. I am not saying that every CAC stickered coin has outstanding eye appeal and deserves a premium over bid. However, the ones that do deserve to sell at a premium regardless of the sticker because they are good for the grade and have outstanding eye appeal. Those two factors are what raise the price, not the sticker.
Jack I would agree with everything you said, to a point. But I do not believe that CAC is infallible either. The second set of eyes on the coin is absolutely better than just one set of eyes, but even the second set can miss things occasionally. You'd do well to not forget that.
.......but where does it end? do collectors think that the bean is the final word? for how long is it the last word? when will another must have sticker arrive on the scene that says THIS sticker says THAT sticker is approved? (visualize hand slapping head here) how big will the slab have to be to accommodate all the stickers?
Nobody has suggested the bean is the final word on anything. It is simply an additional opinion, take it or leave it. It ends when there's no demand for another opinion. Let's remember that the CAC was a reaction to the TPGs overgrading and flat out missing/ignoring problematic coins. Having used the service myself, I'd say they do a darn good job at it, but that's my opinion based on my experience. But to question the CAC because of the "where will it end" is very typical of the emotional and illogical reaction to the CAC, while ignoring the shortcomings of the TPGs.
Fair enough Doug, but it does greatly decrease the chances of a dog. And, not all primos have been submitted for consideration. In the case of Indian Cents, I would rather have the Eagle Eye Photoseal than the CAC.
I sincerely hope that the people who are criticizing the CAC have actually seen some CAC stickered coins in hand. It would be a shame if they deemed a service worthless without even seeing the results first hand.
Well said, it would be a shame if even half of the comments on this thread are judgments based on photos. We should all know that a coin can and usually does look very different in hand and grades can only be guessed at from a photo. I have some before and after shots of some Heritage coins where thier photo made a coin look like crap and my photo shows it a bit better to where it looks like the decent coin it is.
Very true Crusty - I have posted many times with comparison pics to specifically illustrate that fact. But let's not forget, the opposite can also be true. Pics can be accurate. And there are plenty of times when a picture can show that a coin has been over-graded. To put blind faith in the TPG's is a mistake. Think of the examples where a coin slabbed by PCGS has been puttied, or otherwise worked, and CAC has refused to sticker the slab because of this. For that matter think of the examples that CAC would label as C coins, low for the grade, or maybe over-graded. Doubting your own judgement on a coin just because all you have is a pic, is not a very smart thing to do. Sure, if you can later see the coin in hand you may well reverse your opinion. But what I have found, for myself anyway, is that I very rarely reverse my opinion based on the pic.
.......emotional? i'm just saying that CAC is not the end! give some time and you'll see something else 'approving' the CAC sticker. look for the over-sized slab, as i've said before that will be needed for all the other stickers that some feel needs to justify the grade originally given by the tpg. buy what you like enjoy the hobby and please don't get upset when others don't agree with your views.
This thread has been enjoyable to read, I had a chuckle when one poster mentioned, you never will see a sticker on a dog, I took it at first literally, and had a laugh, later I realized he meant a problem or low end coin, though the mental image of someone sending their dog to be stickered still makes me smile. I do not really have any coins that I would count as a member of the family, as I tend to do for pets, but I think some people feel an emotional attachment to their coins, and maybe to them they would as soon sticker their coins as to sticker their dog.
Maybe you weren't being emotional grizz. But I would have to agree that there are many who are very emotional about the subject. I would aslo agree that a very similar reaction occurred when the TPG's first came on the scene. For that matter, there are more than a few who still act quite emotionally about the TPG's. I suspect they always will.
I think that is the point that some of us are trying to make. Back in the 80's this same discussion was going on about putting the coins in the slabs to begin with. Now its exactly the same discussion about putting stickers on those slabs. We're just saying "where will it end?" I think alot of the people who get emotional over this topic are CAC supporters. They think we are bashing CAC. Thats not what we're doing. Or at least its certainly not what I'm doing. I never questioned CAC's ethics, or their skill as graders. I just question the entire concept. Like grizz said, give it some time and we'll eventually see stickers approving the stickers.
