Thank you for your service. Yes, you have the right to disagree, as we all do. And I disagree that a picture of a coin is necessarily worth a thousand words. We don't know what it looks like in person. You looked at the pricing of that coin and came to the conclusion that it was due solely to the CAC sticker. The only way to know if that is correct would be if the seller had it priced noticeably lower previously, without a CAC sticker. And if the coin is significantly over-priced, based on my experience, my guess is that the seller prices most of his other coins the same way, and that the CAC sticker has/had nothing to do with that.
I have no interest in CAC. Grading the graders? Where will it stop? Maybe I'll start a company called AAC. Adam's Acceptance Company. I'll put a blue sticker next to the green one if I like that coin. And of course no Barber coinage will get the blue sticker because I'm not a fan of their obverse design. Seriously though. Buy the coin. Not the plastic, OR the sticker. I'm not saying I won't buy a CAC stickered coin. But I won't pay for their service, nor will I pay extra for the coins.
Correct me if I am wrong but would you not pay extra for thier coins if you liked the coin better than most others you have seen? I know it would still be just buying the coin and not the sticker and the sticker would just happen to be on it.
I'm not sure how you got that from my comment. All I'm saying is that I try to buy the coin and not the slab. Therefore, if the slab doesn't make a difference, the sticker certainly doesn't either. The only point I was trying to make is that CAC seems redundant to me. If we have someone grading the graders, then why not someone grading the people who are grading the graders.
I got that, because, based on your reasoning, if it's only about the coin, it would seem that crossover service is also "grading the graders", "redundant" and costs extra money. So, do you ever try to crossover coins? And if so, why? Thanks.
Conveniently, Adam, thats where my service I just started a few threads above comes in. I verify CAC. And, in the continuance of this pyramid scheme we have going, I'm taking applications as we speak to create a sticker placing company to verify my sticker placing company, which of course is verifying CAC's sticker placing company. If it all works out, we should each make a tidy profit for doing what the original slabber did in the first place, and we'll have some really cool stickers to boot. Guy~
That's a great plan (not really), but for the fact that (I'm guessing) 1) you probably don't have $25,000,000 in reserve to offer a guarantee on and make a market in your verified coins; 2) you don't have the earned/deserved reputation and credibility that John Albanese does as an expert grader and authenticator. So your mocking CAC falls short and badly. You also don't seem to be aware of their motives and goals. I wont bother to try to tell you or explain it because it appears obvious that you don't care and wouldn't be open to believing it, anyway.
It was a joke, Mark. I'm not planning on starting another company to compete with another I don't think we needed to begin with. Yes, Mr Albanese is a good grader. But, that doesn't mean I have to agree with his marketing strategies or his business motives one bit. I have better things to spend my slightly less than 25 million on than multiple opinions on the same coin....like more coins with the only opinion that really matters. Guy~
I stick by the only points I was trying to make, A. Buy the coin, not the slab or the sticker. And B. If we have people grading the graders, then why not people grading them and people grading them, and so on. It doesn't make sense to me. And no I don't ever try to cross over coins. I have no reason to.
I like people who stick to thier guns and do not change thier story but make it more clear over time.
To address a few of your questions/concerns... I don't work for a TPG or the CAC. I don't work in numismatics at all, and I've sold four coins in my entire life. I didn't spend a penny more for my coins w/stickers -- I sent my own coins in to CAC. In so doing, I got a education and it saved me THOUSANDS of dollars. I didn't call anyone ignorant -- I called some (incorrect) things said by one poster ignorant. There's a difference. I buy raw, slabbed, and stickered coins with equal abandon -- I trust my ability to grade and I will put my skills at grading against any on this forum -- including you. However, I also recognize that there are others out there with more experience than I have, and I don't trust my ability to spot all problem coins and I see the value in initiating sight-unseen coin transactions with an additional level of confidence -- and this is where I see value in TPGs and CAC. I speak authoritatively because I know what I'm talking about -- having taken the time to learn about the CAC first-hand. If I'm wrong, kindly point out my mistakes, and I'll be the first to admit it and thank you for correcting me. I'm not telling anyone that they have to involve the TPGs or CAC in their collecting. However, when someone posts something flat out wrong in trying to defend their position, I will call a spade a spade and point out the error -- as I would hope any of you would do with my posts. Bottom line: I said what I said in the post you quoted because I see a lot of people reacting emotionally to the CAC situation. Virtually none of them who react that way have actually used the service themselves, and the only way I can rationalize those type of reactions are because they are based on fear and/or ignorance -- and this thread has, if anything, only gone to reinforce this belief...Mike
My short observations with CAC, I have only bought and sold a few, but have looked at MANY at Heritage auctions and shows. You will NOT a) get an overgraded coin in a holder b) get a " just made it " c) get a " C " coin for the grade. d) get a doctored coin e) get a problem that slipped thru the cracks CAC is not for everybody. It is for some. They ARE the best of the best in a given grade.
I think CAC serves an excellent purpose for those with more money than experience, IE the investor, those who put coins away for retirement, etc etc, without no real knowledge of coins. They will protect themselves. As coin guys, it could be fun for us to spot those high enders and either crack/upgrade or get the sticker at minimal cost to insure the long term value of our collections, and for our heirs. To each his own. If you don't like the sticker, don't submit for them, or dont buy a stickered coin. I think the sticker is here to stay tho folks. It DOES serve a purpose. I will tell you this, I have NEVER seen a dog with a sticker.
My last major haul from a large coin show, the stickered SVDB was a true primo, I hated to see it go. Top left to right: 1909-SVDB MS-64 RB 1909-SVDB AU-53 1924-D MS-65 BR 1922-D MS-65 RB Bottom left to right: 1909-SVDB MS-64 RB CAC 1909-SVDB MS-64 RB 1783 Washington Unity States VF-35 1909-SVDB AU-58
