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<p>[QUOTE=&quot;Ciscokid, post: 36830, member: 1932&quot;]This thread I am hoping will try to help some identify the difference if any between the 4 processes, and what they do to original condition coins and their values--</p><p><br /></p><p>I will specifically start off with the $20 Saint Gaudens since that is how I was burnt 3 times. This started my personnal research &amp; education on how to detect this when I buy RAW coins. Which still to this day I am still learning--Then perhaps we can discuss silver coins like Morgans, Peace &amp; SAE and how to detect these flaws--And even some coppers if anybody has any experience--</p><p><br /></p><p>First to my &quot;whizzed&quot; Saint--What I noticed was this pattern of what I would call &quot;dots&quot; all over the coin--When you compared it to a perfect saint, the background was nice and smooth--looked natural if you will, whereas a whizzed coin looked &quot;pocket&quot; marked, little periods all over the coin, I have also noticed &quot;unnatural lines&quot; or scratches usually going in one direction and accumulates on raised surfaces, on some coins all going in one direction, on one coin going in all directions (musta been a newbie whizzer)--Also the &quot;luster&quot; of the coin is gone, not sharp is what I tell myself, altho you might still get a &quot;cartwheel&quot; effect, it really isn&#039;t if you compare it to say a perfect ms65 Saint--</p><p><br /></p><p>A cleaned Saint is more subtle to detect vs a not cleaned coin--But never the less &quot;cleaned&quot; <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie4" alt=":mad:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> </p><p>What you notice on these puppies is a &quot;faded&quot; look, you won&#039;t see the &quot;dots&quot; or &quot;lines&quot; you would see on a whizzed coin. When looking at it with naked eye, you just see it does not look right--There is no &quot;cartwheel&quot;, it is not as sharp and looks &quot;dull&quot; if you will--Usually more shiny than it should be, &quot;cleaned&quot;--Won&#039;t show it&#039;s age, has a &quot;mistreated&quot; look--</p><p><br /></p><p>There are also other cleaning methods done that I have yet been able to detect that is even more subtle, but yet when you send it to NGC or PCGS they could see it--I say that because I sent 2 Saints in that with my equipment &amp; eye I could not detect cleaning-- They were returned in a body bag <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie9" alt=":eek:" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> That is why I am still very much an amature at detecting &quot;cleaned&quot; but much better at detecting &quot;whizzed&quot; gold Saints coins--</p><p>That is why I experiment and have a few &quot;test coins&quot; to test these forms of cleaning on silver to try and educate myself--I have not whizzed a silver coin yet, donno how, all I know is it usually done with a &quot;mechanical&quot; device, I assumed since it is so brutal, I would say a drill or a dremel type tool with a wire brush--Need I say more? I am hoping this procees has stopped. But buyer beware they are out there. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie3" alt=":(" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /> </p><p><br /></p><p>I have more to say, but for now I&#039;ll post and hope to read interesting stuff on this topic--By the way, I went by Coin Worlds webpage today their first article is exactly on this subject. Since I was burnt by this &quot;whizzing &amp; cleaning&quot; stuff, I figured I need more education. I&#039;m looking forward to info from you all on this subject--</p><p>THANKS</p><p>Cisco[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>

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