Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
World Coins
>
Which variety is my 1859 large Canadian cent??
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Bill in Burl, post: 1799752, member: 23692"]I co-wrote the Charlton variety section for the 2011 (65th edition) Victoria Cents with a couple other guys. Unfortunately, Bill Cross at Charlton only had room for inclusion of 80 varieties ... there could have been easily double that without getting into those that require more than a 5X loupe. I have nearly 1000 1859's so I'm well-versed on what's out there. It's hard to tell from your photos, but I don't see anything in any of the key markers (or places to look) that says it's anything uncommon. The 1859's were strange ducks ... thin bronze planchets that were struck on machines designed for thick copper. Dies and machinery were eaten up (plus the intricate reverse design) by the combination.</p><p><br /></p><p>Since they used the masters and hubs from the 1858 strikings, the last 8 was removed from the hub and all the dies started out as "185" and then the 9 was handpunched in. Since it took 2-3 pressings just to make the "185" blank working die (between alternating cycles of annealing & quenching) and then 2-4 whacks with the hammer and punch to add the "9", there are almost too many 1859 varieties to count. Some working dies lasted less than 5000 coins before being destroyed .. some 50,000 or more. Some obverses were married to as many as 6-7 different reverses. There could be 300 or more 1859 "varieties" (I think about 200 reverse dies, but check the Hazby site), but only a relative few (maybe 20-30) worth collecting unless you are a die-tracker.</p><p><br /></p><p>Because the 9 was handpunched (with no guides) and not knowing if the guy had shakey hands or a liquid lunch, the last digit is all over the place.... they are high, low, near, far, skewed right or left and any combination of the mix. I have no idea how the designation of "low 9" ever got into trends .. it certainly really isn't a real variety (how low is low?) and no one in the 1859 collecting community requested it, so how did it come to be? I've looked at well over 100,000 1859's and a low 9 is no harder to find than a high one or a near one or a far one. I personally think that the near/high one is the hardest to find of the "plain" coins that don't have true evident repunching. Of all the 1859's that I've looked at, I've never found a single coin that didn't have a die crack, repunched digit/letter, or break in the hub design that causes "open" or incomplete letters ... and I'm not even counting the vine breaks at 7 & 13 that EVERY 1859 has. Don't be mislead by Ebay offerings that accentuate D/C's or barely repunched elements that can be seen only by 40X magnifications... at 40X, EVERY coin has some multiple-strike misalignment. The 1859's are one of the most facinating series that you can colllect. It's almost like collecting a new decimal denimation series .. say a 7 cent piece with a million or less struck annually for nearly 50 years. Just because your coin is not listed in any variety publication, doesn't mean that it's not a keeper. Go to Haxby's Vicky site and you'll be able to track down what working die was used for either side, as well as the die state (early thru late) as it wore and then broke.</p><p><br /></p><p>I'm sorry that I was so verbose, but Vicky varieties are my passion.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Bill in Burl, post: 1799752, member: 23692"]I co-wrote the Charlton variety section for the 2011 (65th edition) Victoria Cents with a couple other guys. Unfortunately, Bill Cross at Charlton only had room for inclusion of 80 varieties ... there could have been easily double that without getting into those that require more than a 5X loupe. I have nearly 1000 1859's so I'm well-versed on what's out there. It's hard to tell from your photos, but I don't see anything in any of the key markers (or places to look) that says it's anything uncommon. The 1859's were strange ducks ... thin bronze planchets that were struck on machines designed for thick copper. Dies and machinery were eaten up (plus the intricate reverse design) by the combination. Since they used the masters and hubs from the 1858 strikings, the last 8 was removed from the hub and all the dies started out as "185" and then the 9 was handpunched in. Since it took 2-3 pressings just to make the "185" blank working die (between alternating cycles of annealing & quenching) and then 2-4 whacks with the hammer and punch to add the "9", there are almost too many 1859 varieties to count. Some working dies lasted less than 5000 coins before being destroyed .. some 50,000 or more. Some obverses were married to as many as 6-7 different reverses. There could be 300 or more 1859 "varieties" (I think about 200 reverse dies, but check the Hazby site), but only a relative few (maybe 20-30) worth collecting unless you are a die-tracker. Because the 9 was handpunched (with no guides) and not knowing if the guy had shakey hands or a liquid lunch, the last digit is all over the place.... they are high, low, near, far, skewed right or left and any combination of the mix. I have no idea how the designation of "low 9" ever got into trends .. it certainly really isn't a real variety (how low is low?) and no one in the 1859 collecting community requested it, so how did it come to be? I've looked at well over 100,000 1859's and a low 9 is no harder to find than a high one or a near one or a far one. I personally think that the near/high one is the hardest to find of the "plain" coins that don't have true evident repunching. Of all the 1859's that I've looked at, I've never found a single coin that didn't have a die crack, repunched digit/letter, or break in the hub design that causes "open" or incomplete letters ... and I'm not even counting the vine breaks at 7 & 13 that EVERY 1859 has. Don't be mislead by Ebay offerings that accentuate D/C's or barely repunched elements that can be seen only by 40X magnifications... at 40X, EVERY coin has some multiple-strike misalignment. The 1859's are one of the most facinating series that you can colllect. It's almost like collecting a new decimal denimation series .. say a 7 cent piece with a million or less struck annually for nearly 50 years. Just because your coin is not listed in any variety publication, doesn't mean that it's not a keeper. Go to Haxby's Vicky site and you'll be able to track down what working die was used for either side, as well as the die state (early thru late) as it wore and then broke. I'm sorry that I was so verbose, but Vicky varieties are my passion.[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
World Coins
>
Which variety is my 1859 large Canadian cent??
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...