Which company is the toughest grader NCG or PCGS?

I'm not the only one. And I think this is because there is a much smaller relative population of Peace Dollars compared to Morgans - and they are the true "last bastion" of the American silver dollar.

I think the series has been under appreciated for a long time and it's just starting to come to light in relative value and design.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

'@SuperDave has posted this: Well, I can proceed in blissful ignorance because I have the apparent offender on Ignore and didn't see any of what has incensed everyone so much. Therefore, I can think of the bigger picture - a lot of people who deserve better than to read only a bunch of sniping and maybe deserve some actual content. [As requested in a very appropriate manner the first time] This thread has 68 posts and 817 reads; as usual, only a small percentage of those reading are actually participating.

Lehigh96's images, albeit sharp and clear, are too small to identify specifically areas of moved metal which are characteristic of whizzing. This is absolutely correct; however, anyone who learns what the "typical altered luster" of a whizzed coin can see at a quick glance that it is whizzed.Another important - although not universal - whizzing characteristic is present to the informed observer even in small images like these.

We can all see the "too shiny" areas in the fields (especially for the level of wear) and the lack of finish contrast between the bust and adjacent fields which are hallmarks of a cleaned coin. That's plain. In this case, though, it's important to notice how little of that applied, smooth finish reaches the tighter areas, and just how "large" those "tighter areas" are. Whizzing, by definition, employs a larger tool than other cleaning methods (??), and a major characteristic of a whizzed coin (at least, one done with a half-hearted (?) attempt at informed, deliberate deception like this example) is that the damage/effect will usually be limited to the widest-open areas of the coin. Not entirely true.

None of the "shiny" on Lehigh96's coin reaches the rim, mostly due to the lighting. or areas like underneath the hair ribbon It's there , around the date It's there EXCEPT for UNDER the numerals. ,or above the head The shiny whizzing is there also. on the obverse. On the reverse, look amongst the stars and under the MM and arrows. See the marks? Those are what the whizzing was intended to eliminate, This makes a really good sounding "story." The main reason coins are whizzed is to make them look like a "frosty" original BU coin. Whizzing is RARELY done to remove marks or hide repairs. but the polishing wheel couldn't reach them without severely damaging the adjacent device details Whizzing has damaged ALL the relief details on this coin - that's what whizzing does! so the miscreant stayed away from them.

And that's the lesser-known hallmark of whizzing - no marks on the open fields Absolutely incorrect! - where you'd most expect them - yet marks remaining in the places the whizzing tool couldn't reach. It's also the difference between whizzing and mechanical cleaning like brushing and polishing. Totally misinformed statement. You whiz a coin to remove marks, not to remove crud. While I GUESS SOME FOOL might TRY to remove marks by whizzing a coin - that is not the reason the majority of coins are whizzed (see above).

Now, I'll ask all the doubter's here to do a little experiment so I can back up MY POST. Please click on the obverse of the Barber Half. Do you see ALL THE MARKS LEFT ON THE SURFACE OF THE COIN that the whizzing did not remove?

When a coin is whizzed, the only places where ANY untouched surface remains is RIGHT UP NEXT to he point where the relief meets the field. That is where the tool leaves the coin's surface. As it does this, the edge of the relief design appears pushed up into a very thin lip*.

*This is the ONLY characteristic that defines whizzing from any other form of mechanical cleaning.

Perhaps, a member can alert those who choose to stay uninformed about this post. I tried to PM one of them so we could discuss this post and perhaps make some corrections for himself to save me the time.

 

So this has turned into a whizzing contest?

Yeah, it's Friday!!!

 

It depends on which company is getting the most bulk graders since PCGS gets more bulk graders on newer coins they are less consistent on their grading hence NGC is tougher. both grading companies over grade bulk graders. On older coins it depends on the series

 

I don't believe overall generalizations (PCGS vs NGC) can be made. I have submitted to both but am not a submitter hobbyist, or buyer of raw coins (expensive enough) requiring submission.

I have to look at total cost vs estimate how much I am going to submit during a years time. Both charge a collectors society fee which drives up total submission cost. Basically I use their respective inventory managers in valuing, pricing material for sale. Because I like the PCGS Coin Facts Tool and Inventory Manager (beats what NGC has) I favor PCGS at the present time. However, I believe their submittal membership is more expensive.

I believe if you specialize in a particular series and do numerous submissions, try both and see which one works best for your situation.

I evaluate the coin based on my standards, likes, and dislikes. I am a graduate of an ANA US Coin Grading Seminar / Course so when doubt I will refer to ANA grading Standards.

 

Neither membership has an actual cost but NGC you only break even where PCGS actually saves you money. NGC you get a 150 dollar voucher for the 149 dollar sign up fee. PCGS you actually save money, it's 249 for 8 vouchers which can be used on regular secure plus submissions which would normally cost 296 so you save a little under 50 bucks. I would sign up every single submission with PCGS if they would let me.

 

What you say is true. I happen to know the actual "story" from the horse's mouth so to speak. You can look it up.

Prior to 1972, the ANA used the word "cleaning" in their written definition of "Whizzing." The original authenticators at ANACS while it was in DC were well acquainted with whizzed coins as this was one of the most prevalent surface alterations at that time. They noticed that every coin that was altered by the TRUE WIZZING METHOD displayed a buildup of a thin strip of metal along the edge of the relief details. That's what separated "whizzing" from ALL OTHER FORMS of mechanical cleaning. From that time on, WHIZZING HAD ONE FIRM, UNIVERSAL DEFINITION as taught by the ANA. If there was no buildup , it was not whizzed. Anyone ignorant of this fact is free to call a buffed up coin whizzed but they would be incorrect.

Furthermore, in the 1980's a newer form of whizzing appeared. It was called "micro-whizzing" and first appeared on Indian cents and early Lincolns. Authenticators at INSAB (the original horse's mouth mentioned above) could tell the surface was altered but needed a stereo microscope to see the ridge. Many of these coins were slabbed as original by PCGS and NGC until they finally caught on much later.

 

Tank u

 

NGC gets it right and is a tougher grader on Franklin halves. You can make some decent money if you have the right eye for an ngc/pcgs crossover. For the higher ms and double stamped Franklin halves the opposite can be true. Imho