Which company is the toughest grader NCG or PCGS?

I would have suspected the reverse between 6 and 7 o'clock myself. That is what struck me first. Probably both.

 

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STILL WAITING FOR YOU TO TELL US WHAT SURFACES ARE NOT WHIZZED.

 

Sorry everyone didn't mean to start a dispute. I understand the buying slab mentality but that is not what I think most people what from the hobby. I can speak for myself and I think it would be exciting to be able to look at a coin and know enough to say I see this is in MS60 condition or this one has whizzing, etc. For me that would be so fulfilling and I am working my way towards that by looking at coins in detail, reading articles, and posting here. Just buying slabs takes part of the fun out of it because some else has already discovered/decided what the coin is....Thanks

 

This is a coin forum, people share information willingly, or not. You wanna know which areas are whizzed, send me $50 via Paypal. No more free education for ingrates such as yourself.

 

I hope you like waiting you old fool.

 

Sorry buddy, can't do it, gotta teach a 71 year old cry baby a lesson before he goes down for the dirt nap.

 

You never play nice. Your childish post just tick folks off. It's clear that you are only here to do harm to this forum. Many just don't wish to deal with you and have blocked you. Stop picking at people and act like the adult you claim to be.

 

I generally stay out of the NGC/PCGS debate, but I will agree with what other posters are saying in that it varies from series to series.

With modern commemoratives, half-dollars are graded much more strictly than dollars in most cases. The number of 70s among halves is paltry compared to the number of 70s in the $1 column.

 

Well, I can proceed in blissful ignorance because I have the apparent offender on Ignore and didn't see any of what has incensed everyone so much. Therefore, I can think of the bigger picture - a lot of people who deserve better than to read only a bunch of sniping and maybe deserve some actual content. This thread has 68 posts and 817 reads; as usual, only a small percentage of those reading are actually participating.

Lehigh96's images, albeit sharp and clear, are too small to identify specifically areas of moved metal which are characteristic of whizzing. Another important - although not universal - whizzing characteristic is present to the informed observer even in small images like these.

We can all see the "too shiny" areas in the fields (especially for the level of wear) and the lack of finish contrast between the bust and adjacent fields which are hallmarks of a cleaned coin. That's plain. In this case, though, it's important to notice how little of that applied, smooth finish reaches the tighter areas, and just how "large" those "tighter areas" are. Whizzing, by definition, employs a larger tool than other cleaning methods, and a major characteristic of a whizzed coin (at least, one done with a half-hearted attempt at informed, deliberate deception like this example) is that the damage/effect will usually be limited to the widest-open areas of the coin.

None of the "shiny" on Lehigh96's coin reaches the rim, or areas like underneath the hair ribbon, around the date, or above the head on the obverse. On the reverse, look amongst the stars and under the MM and arrows. See the marks? Those are what the whizzing was intended to eliminate, but the polishing wheel couldn't reach them without severely damaging the adjacent device details so the miscreant stayed away from them.

And that's the lesser-known hallmark of whizzing - no marks on the open fields - where you'd most expect them - yet marks remaining in the places the whizzing tool couldn't reach. It's also the difference between whizzing and mechanical cleaning like brushing and polishing. You whiz a coin to remove marks, not to remove crud.

 

@SuperDave, thank you for thoughtfully responding to help educate us all. I am relatively new, and soaking up information like a sponge - and that may well be the case for many who are reading along.

I occasionally see some of the long-time members get exasperated by repeating what they have said before. I, for one, do appreciate that knowledge does grow and become refined with discussion and experience. So patiently responding based on your current understanding is very welcome. It helps bring some of us along at a much faster rate than we would before.

I have also seen countless admonitions to "look it up", which I do, but I also like to see today's thinking. Reiterations (that seem tedious to the forum regulars) may include refinements based on other discussions, so they are far from useless to us newer folks.

So thanks, your posts are appreciated.
And for the rest of you, your efforts are appreciated, too - they are read by many more of us than just the person you are directly addressing. So when you take an extra step to be helpful, realize that many of us here do appreciate that.

 

Thanks once again Dave you find a way to put it in terms that is understandable. I really appreciate you taking the time to explain!!!!!!!

 

This is a forum for learning. When a member posts a comment AS AN AUTHORITY and misrepresents the actual situation it needs to be pointed out so as not to confuse or give false information to all of us.
@ldhair I'm not the CT police; but I'm beginning to think you may be.
@Lehigh96 made a statement about a whizzed coin. I'm sure he knows more about everything than I and that's why I asked (very nicely I might add: Post#49) if he would point out the areas on the coin that he claimed were not whizzed. Simple, honest question, and I expected a simple honest answer.

I'm also not the poster here. I'm just impatient (STILL WAITING) for new knowledge. This is a place to exchange opinions, state facts, back them up and hopefully reach consensus; all the while educating all of us.

So, I'll let @Lehigh96 off the hook he is hanging from as he prefers to upset the OP while calling me an old foolish ingrate crybaby and requesting $50 to answer my simple question. Now, I'm the bad guy again.

 

The only coins I've really focused on in the last few years have been Peace Dollars, and I've seen, reviewed and graded enough to say that the NGC peace dollar grading standards are far tougher. I've seen good and bad in both, but feel I've spent enough time on both companies reviewing Peace Dollars to speak with a bit of practical knowledge and experience.

I've had a few crossovers that have consistently come back from NGC at lower grade. Right now I'm fighting with a 1935-S Peace Dollar that was in a PCGS 64 holder - and it's a strong 64, borderline technical grade of 64+65 and twice I've received it back from NGC as a 63 and 63+

I was trying to move it into my registry collection and finally gave up. I've reviewed many Peace Dollars and NGC always has a better quality coin in the same grade. They are more consistent - sometimes I'd declare even stubborn to admit the reality of the grade in lieu of protecting the grade.

 

Insider, Lehigh96 has absolutely no requirement to answer yours or anyone's elses' questions if he doesn't wish to do so. All participation here is voluntary, including yours and mine. And although you feel your questions were nice and innocent, perhaps a little honest review of your posts by a good friend might indicate very readily where they seem 'obvious ' to some , that they perhaps are delivered on the end of a barb. This tends to reduce the simple honest answers you say you are asking.

Lehigh, please leave age out of the comments, as they are not any concern as to a person's ability or expertise on the forum.

Thanks to both of you.

 

Look for an unoriginal surface - esp very light continuous hairlines from cleaning. Tip (30 to 40 degrees) and rotate the coin in a dark room w/one light source. It will be difficult to tell through plastic.

 

Both my dealer and I have cracked the coin out - in fact it was in a 64 holder and we found plastic residue in the edge of the rim when we pulled it out of the 64 holder - which is why we pulled it out after NGC body-bagged it (red dot of doom).

And I do implicitly trust my dealer. He's an ex-PCGS grader and is a "lifer" numismatist.

It never should have gone into a holder with the residue on it. PCGS screwed the pooch on this one - but it's a solid 64 coin, borderline 65 with a weaker strike (it's an SF Peace Dollar, they were weak strikes in general).

We sent it back to NGC a second time and it came back a 63. Third a 63+.

Scratches on the reverse are on the slab - not the coin.

Right now the coin is raw, and so is my bum from both companies. PCGS for grading a coin with residue on it and NGC for lowballing it.

I am still debating where it's going to go for re-grade since it's raw, but I am seriously considering another run with NGC because they do have a much tougher standard on Peace Dollars. They really badger the SF coins for the strike - and it should be taken into consideration IMHO.

 

I see a beep, horizontal gouge across the eagle's back. IF that is on the coin IMO, Never MS-64 as only light marks are allowed on an MS-64.

And, your ex-PCGS grader/dealer agrees w/the assigned PCGS grade (64) so he knows their standards.

 

It's on the slab - not the coin. I wouldn't have even tried if it was on the coin.

 

Ngc been real tough on peace dollars. The last 2 I sent them came back 63 was a no brain 64 and au 58. In my opinion low ms

 

You are lucky to have that coin out of the beat up slab!

If I were you, I'd wait several months before sending the coin back to NGC. Very often a resubmission (especially with a [? date covered so don't know price jump] close call) is discussed so the graders on that service tier will remember the coin. After a wait, submit it again in a group of very nice coins. Only you and your dealer can judge the eye appeal and how "white" and original the coin is. Good Luck.