When you have a lot of money, but no idea what you're doing

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Limes, Feb 23, 2021.

  1. Limes

    Limes Supporter! Supporter

    I've been following the (larger portion of the) Roman part of the Kunker elive 65 auction this evening. I really enjoy these elive auctions of Kunker. They generally are accessible for a collector with a smaller budget, and usually offer more than fair quality coins.
    Today however... oh my! It's been discussed many times here already, that prices of coins have sky rocketed. During the before mentioned part of the Kunker elive auction, it unfortunately was no difference at all.
    Just a few bidding numbers quickly seized the auction and prices were soaring. But I really wondered if one of these numbers really knew what she/he was doing. It led to strange situations (example shown below) where the bidding number bid against her-/himself! The shots below is no exception. What's going on here? A mistake can happen, but that was not the case here, as it happened over and over again. I guess one simply does not care if one has enough money?? What are your observations about the strange situation?

    I ended up with 0 wins. I won't complain. I truly dislike the feeling of having overpaid for a coin, which would definitely been the case in this elive auction. And it leaves me with some extra budget for a next auction :)

    galba68, Theodosius and Fugio1 like this.
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  3. Orielensis

    Orielensis Supporter! Supporter

    I assume that in your example, someone else entered a bid that didn't exceed the previous one of bidder 6259. Therefore, they still showed up as the current high bidder yet with a higher bid.
  4. svessien

    svessien Senior Member Supporter

    When I saw this title, I thought it perhaps was a riddle where one was to find the original question.
    For example: What are the similarities between a Heritage auction and a US Presidential election?

    Sorry, just had to
  5. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter Basileus Megalos

    I've also noticed higher prices and more intensive bidding. For example in the FSR auction which closes this eve, some lots are going for 3x the starting price (one I'm still bidding on has). I bid on three others and those also got out of hand at 4x -6x the starting price but on those the prices are now way over the fixed price cost to acquire on vcoins or mashops so I pulled back.
  6. svessien

    svessien Senior Member Supporter

    The market seems to be under a heavy influence of Covid-19 and FOMO-21.

    Unless the amount of collectors has doubled the last year, I expect it to adjust.
    I still think it’s a little bit fun to see the coin market in full vigour.
  7. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    I noticed the same situation in the last months. Usually I buy from a certain auction house, as I know they are serious and ship quickly, they usually have budget coins so this is fine for me.
    4-5 months ago I won some nice coins, my personal estimate was 30-35 EUR but I won them with 20-25. Recently, my 35-40 estimates had the hammer price 60-80. Obviously, more bidders.

    I agree with Limes - overpaying on a coin is frustrating and I avoid this.
    Normally when I see a coin on my wish list is "very popular" in live auctions and exceeds my estimate with more than 20-25%, I let it go.

    Only explanation I find is that there are 2-3 bidders there that really want the coin and get carried away. One might say it's not a disaster if a coin personally estimated at 50 EUR is won with, let's say, 80, but when you win 30 coins at an auction your budget might cry.
  8. Victor_Clark

    Victor_Clark standing on the shoulders of giants Dealer

    I've noticed prices going up over the years as more people gather on forums and talk about which auction sites they like...this inadvertently helps auction prices go up.
  9. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    Kunker was NUTS today. There was only one item I needed for my Faustina I collection, this sestertius. It had an estimate of 40 €, which I thought was on the low side, even considering the poor strike on the reverse. But it went for a whopping 145 €, which would have worked out to about US $220 after the buyer's fee, the currency exchange fees and shipping. Moreover, there's no telling what I would have had to bid to obtain it -- 160 €? 175 €? It's hard to say.

    I had to let it go early in the bidding. I decided to put the money I would have spent on this one and bought a very rare denarius of Faustina II at the Stack's & Bowers auction today instead.

  10. Marsyas Mike

    Marsyas Mike Well-Known Member

    That does seem high - I was under the impression that this was fairly common? Here is my low-grade RIC 1146A:

    Faustina I - Sest. Pietas candelabrum Jul 2019 (0).jpg
    Faustina I Æ Sestertius
    1st Phase: funeral, deification
    (c. 140-143 A.D.)
    Rome Mint

    [DIVA] AVGVSTA FAVST[INA], draped bust right / [PIETAS AVG] S C, Pietas, standing, left, sacrificing over candelabrum-altar left, holding box of incense in left hand.
    RIC 1146Aa.
    (25.07 grams / 32 x 30 mm)
    eBay July 2019 $11.50

    I think these are veiled versions (no-stephane and stephane):

    Faustina I - Sest VEILED Pietas Aug 2019 doo (0).jpg
    Faustina I - Sest. Veiled Pietas Jan 2019 (0).jpg
  11. kevin McGonigal

    kevin McGonigal Well-Known Member

    Reminds me of the coin market, precious metals, and commodity markets of circa late 1970's and early 1980's. Irrational exuberance.
    Roman Collector likes this.
  12. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..i gotta ask....what's FOMO stand for?...:rolleyes:
  13. Iepto

    Iepto Active Member

    fear of missing out
    Roman Collector and ominus1 like this.
  14. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    ..ah...then its nothing like a henway then...thanks..:)
  15. Orfew

    Orfew Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus Supporter

    Oh no I am not taking the bait on that one. LOL
    ominus1 likes this.
  16. Limes

    Limes Supporter! Supporter

    I was thinking perhaps either this person was bidding against his prebids. Which seems an inadequate explanation, because you can easily see the prebid disdplayed on the screen.
    Another explanation could be this person was a bit unpatient and clicked to quick on the bid button, or the system was a bit too slow.
    I was also thinking that the two main bidders were dealers, filling stock. Then again, some coins went for ridiculous prices, even exceeding retailprices. Why would dealers do that?

    It must be that English is not my native language, but I'm not getting this one... :-(

    Could be an explanation, yes. Its apparent that the internet has led to an better exchange of knowledge and experiences. On this board, there have been quite a few topics on various auction houses. This board is free to anyone without a registration, so this knowledge is easily obtained.
    On the other case, the auction mentioned in this thread was seized primarely by only two bidders with deep pockets. Would they frequent this board (or a similar ancient coins board), and be inspired? And why buy Marcus Aurelius denarii, for 400 / 500 + euro's? Iwould assume that the internet and all the information available would lead to bidders make a serious estimate of value and adjust a bid accordingly. Many of yesterdays bid were anything but serious in my opinion. Ah well. Perhaps the easiest explanation is that sometimes things just don't make sense.

    Too bad to hear that Roman Collector. I was after 5 coins, hoping to score at least 2. Well, that didn't work out. These coins however aren't very rare or anything, so there's always another opportunity. Glad you found another coin and didn't join the madness :)
    Roman Collector and Andres2 like this.
  17. svessien

    svessien Senior Member Supporter

    Fear Of Missing Out.

    I frequently watch interwiews with investors and hedge fund managers, using this term to describe why stocks are still on the rise.
    ominus1 and ancient coin hunter like this.
  18. svessien

    svessien Senior Member Supporter

  19. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter Basileus Megalos

    I checked the Frank Robinson auction results this morning (they are posted) and it turns out I won the lot I mentioned above, though at roughly 3x the starting price, a FIDES MILITVM sestertius of Gallienus.
    Roman Collector likes this.
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