When was Money Invented ?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Al Kowsky, Jan 21, 2021.

  1. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    Did you score the bronze cowries in China or at auction o_O?
     
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  3. SeptimusT

    SeptimusT Well-Known Member

    Proto-money and makeshift money are awesome topics. I think that whether something is considered bartering or money is as much a matter of philosophy as history. The line between the two is pretty fuzzy. I see a lot of similarities between something like a 'trade axe' that has no functional use and Chinese spade money - both originating from a practical object that might've been bartered, but reduced to being a symbol. Something like Aes Rude or Aes Grave isn't so far off, either.

    Magatama.jpg

    Anyway, here's something that can be classified as an early barter object, as a protocurrency, and as jewelry: a jadeite magatama from Japan. The earliest examples were made similarly to stone tools and used as jewelry objects, evolving to use more refined materials later on. These were produced between 1000 BC and 500 AD, with this example probably falling into the 300 BC - 300 AD range (Yayoi period). It's thought that certain regions of Japan specialized in producing these, trading them with other regions for other necessities. Eventually they evolved into sacred items and burial goods before mostly disappearing; one of them is still part of the regalia of the Japanese Emperor.
     
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  4. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    Trusted dealer!
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
  5. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I HAVE purchased a coin or two in China, but MANY years ago, and half-hearted figgerred they were replicas. However, when I did buy personal things in China, I knew they were authentic (had agents with me), or they were normal everyday goods that locals purchased for their own use.

    However, yeah, I have to chuckle: When you see all those "designer" items being confiscated and destroyed... I have been in several factories where those items were manufactured. RIGHT beside them were NON-branded items that were from the EXACT same manufacturing line. :) I have seen product manufactured in China, brand name, quality product, BRANDED and produced by that German brand-name company that were stamped "MADE IN GERMANY", as it was coming off the production line.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
  6. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    I want some MesoAmerican Bronze Ax Money... Read about this when reading about the history of Mayan Rulers...

    Then, I went to Wiki, just to see what they looked like.

    "Axe-monies refer to bronze artifacts found in both western Mesoamerica and the northern Andes." "it is argued that the system of money first arose on the north coast of Peru and Ecuador in the early second millennium CE. In both regions, bronze was smelted, likely by family units, and hammered into thin, axe-shaped forms and bundled in multiples of five, usually twenty. "
    upload_2021-1-21_18-11-18.png
    upload_2021-1-21_18-11-41.png

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axe-monies#:~:text=Axe-money from Mexico at the Prehistory Museum of,in both western Mesoamerica and the northern Andes.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
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  7. medoraman

    medoraman Well-Known Member

    Yeah, not buying the article at all. Common manufacturing methods of perhaps a commonly accepted form of bronze would explain fairly close weights. They presented absolutely no data of the intended use of these as a standard medium of exchange. I am even dubious of these as even proto-currencies.

    Seems like the researchers simply were trying to make their research more important than it is in my view. Axe hide bronzes are off the top of my head the earliest proto-money I know of around Europe.
     
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  8. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    S.T. That's quite a little treasure :)! I collected jade for many years but have never seen a magatama pendant for sale, they are rare. Where did you find this one o_O? I've liquidated most of my jade over the last decade but still have a few pieces left. One piece I really treasure is pictured below, it's a gem quality jadeite pendant from Costa Rica, circa AD 300-700, 2.06 in. long. I bought it at a Pre Columbian Art auction at Sotheby's, NYC in 1994.
    Pre Columbian Jadeite Pendant.jpg

    I believe the source for the Japanese magatama jadeite has never been located. As I'm sure you know, the source for Chinese jadeite has always been Burma, & only until the 18th century did they accept it as jade.
     
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  9. SeptimusT

    SeptimusT Well-Known Member

    @Al Kowsky, My magatama came from a small collection of Japanese and Asian artifacts that was sold by a Japanese dealer on eBay, believe it or not! I think that the price was agreeable because it was broken and repaired, but I'm just happy to have one. Very beautiful Pre-Columbian piece!

    Anyway, speaking generally of protomoney, I'm also a little skeptical of the idea that these axeheads and rings functioned exactly like money. They were probably somewhere between commodity trade items and money, which is an important step towards the creation of coinage. We can be pretty certain of this because they were hoarded rather like money. The distinction depends a lot on how one defines 'money' philosophically!
     
  10. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

    S.T., Your point is well taken ;). The debate of what is money can go on ad infinitum, as illustrated by the many well founded opinions expressed by CT members.
     
  11. mike estes

    mike estes Well-Known Member

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  12. Al Kowsky

    Al Kowsky Well-Known Member

  13. fomovore

    fomovore Active Member

    As @Rob Woodside mentioned "I can imagine paleolithithic hunter gatherers hefting a couple of nuggets to find the heaviest, but not bronze age metalurgists. They would need to know how much tin to add to the copper to get a good alloy."

    A Mesopotamian hymn to Shamash from around 2600 BCE mentions "He who [commits] fra[ud as he holds the ba]lances", "Who switches weights, who lowers the [ ]" and "The one who is honest in holding the balance, [ ] plenty of [ ]".

    Egyptian Instructions of Amenemope, from around 1200 BCE says "not to move the scales nor alter the weights".

    I'm sure the balance scale was well known in the bronze age (and possibly before that). No need for "psychophysics".
     
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