When to consider die states when collecting

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by dimeguy, Jul 14, 2021.

  1. dimeguy

    dimeguy Dime Enthusiast

    This is more for a general discussion than for a question answering. I know my own answer regarding the series I am collecting currently, but I wanted to hear the opinions of others:

    When or do you consider die states in your collections? If a series is known to be weakly struck do you take that as something known in the back of your mind as you search, or still hunt and peck for the one with the finest details from the best strike? Are there certain aspects of your series that you must have on the coin, despite all other features of the die beginning to fail? Do you purposefully collect those with poor die states or modifications?

    I know for me in working on the Lincoln Cents, I like to have all lines in the wheat stalk show, complete "O" in "ONE", Lincoln's jaw line must be defined and not flattened and a fairly clean shoulder/lapel but that is just me...which can become quite challenging in the 1920's.

    Still, I am sure there are others with different views and there are different series with die issues (Peace dollar for example), and I simply just want to open the conversation up to the topic. Furthermore, when do you decide between a fairly clean AU or a low to mid grade MS with all sorts of die chips and compromised features or do you as collectors even make the compromise?
     
    Coinman1974 likes this.
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  3. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    If a die state is rare or interesting in appearance, I prefer it. For example terminal die states I would always prefer over pristine if the terminal die state was from the die being damaged and taken out of service. It makes collecting more interesting. Sometimes the pristine early die state is the difficult one to find.
     
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  4. kanga

    kanga 65 Year Collector

    My collecting area is mostly EAC copper.
    So my main interests are date, grade and variety.
    If my reference material also includes die state then I take note of it.
    BUT only as a point of interest; I'm not so deeply into it that I consider it a significant descriptor.
     
  5. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I only have a minor interest in die state collecting at best.

    So far as collecting early copper, I think that it hurts the hobby. I used to collect half cents by die variety. Even the common varieties have a population of one to two thousand really decent coins. For the better varieties, it's a lot less. When one collector has to have four, five or in one case (1806 C-6 half cent) more than a dozen pieces for die state collecting purposes, it does not leave much for everyone else.

    I think that it's good to make the hobby more inviting for new people When the big collectors soak up most of the coins, it does not encourage new blood.

    That's my two cents, and it's not a popular view with EAC people.

    As my collecting interests, I like strong strikes was bold images. Some die breaks can be interesting, but when the die state comes down to weak strikes from "tired dies," my response is "ho-hum."
     
  6. AuldFartte

    AuldFartte Well-Known Member

    Well, some years back I decided I would start collecting Middle Date Large Cents by variety and trying to get (to me anyway) the most interesting looking die state, usually those with die cracks. I have a thing for die cracks on LCs. But since the prices of good early coppers went so high so fast, I abandoned that idea. I will still pick up the occasional LC with marvelous die breaks just because I like them. Also, collecting those by variety alone would contain 250 coins. Adding all the die states would make that number go way up.
     
  7. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I have thought about doing a date set of large cents. I knew that the 1799 and 1804 would make that a serious challenge (I have two 1793s), but I am fast learning that even the late dates are expensive in attractive Mint State.

    I priced an AU-58 graded 1847 dated piece at Summer FUN. It was a common variety, but as soon as I saw "7th finest known" written on the holder, I knew I was in trouble. The piece was not original. It had been dipped and had re-toned. That was confirmed on one of the envelops that the seller had to prove its pedigree for high grade for the variety status.

    He wanted over $200 more than the PCGS "Coin Facts" retail price. It has been my experience that those numbers are often high. I offered him a bit over the PCGS number, but he passed.

    I think that I am going to have to re-think doing that date, even for the middle and late dates.
     
  8. Randy Abercrombie

    Randy Abercrombie Supporter! Supporter

    I can understand that. I am a type coin guy. There have been several time that I would post a coin in a discussion and somebody would respond telling me what a great die clash or die crack my coin displayed. And once it was pointed out to me, that is all I see when I looked at the piece…… No I don’t collect that way but I certainly can see the appeal in doing so.
     
  9. dimeguy

    dimeguy Dime Enthusiast

    The creation of this thread was influenced by my reading of my Lincoln Cent Guide. The author was telling of the '22 D and how to differentiate the dies and how a good collector would identify the die pairs and keep a good eye for the no D variety. A page later talking about the '24 S he goes on to elaborate how important it is to find a good strike coin with no planchet chipping, non-blended wheat lines and full beard.

    My thought was, where do you delineate your collecting? It is preference to have a 22 D with a poor die state but want a strong one for a 24 S? Seems more tongue in cheek to me when I read it.

    This led me to think if there are other series where one would collect based on die states? Then you have the opposite of the weak 22 D dies as several hundred collectors focus on those sharply struck coins, presumably from fresh dies, and die spacing...full head, full torch, full split bands, full steps, full bell lines, etc.
     
  10. Vertigo

    Vertigo Did someone say bust?

    I am a bust half collector. I like the rarest die state even if it is cracked. However, I am also a CAC hunter. And more often badly cracked dies created weak strikes that will most likely fail CAC approval. So I always look for the best die state. But will buy the rarest if available regardless of CAC worthiness.
     
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