Featured When the horseman wins

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by dougsmit, Oct 6, 2018.

  1. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    We regularly have posts of the FEL TEMP REPARATIO type "Falling Horseman" showing the defeat of a mounted barbarian but Constantius II and others of his day also issued a type where the horseman is shown killing the foot soldier. One of these was among my most recent purchases from the recent Virginia Numismatic association show.
    Constantius II AE2 GLORIA ROMANORVM RP Rome mint

    Other than the reversal of reverse victor, the coins show other changes from what we see on the Falling Horsemen. The reverse legend is usually GLORIA ROMANORVM

    The obverse portrait includes an armored arm holding a globe under the chin. The above example shows the pearl diadem option (RIC 195, 198 or 204 but my previous example (below) of the type had the laurel and rosette diadem portrait making the coin RIC 196, 199 or 205.

    How is it that the coins each fall under three different RIC numbers? RIC separates the coins into three groups separating those issued by Magnentius for Constantius before the loss of the city to Neopotian, those issued by Neopotian and those after Magnentius regained control of Rome. The clue given for the separation of the three is the diameter of the coins but the measurements overlap (25-26mm, 23-25mm and 22-24mm respectively. All three are listed at a weight of 5.20g. while both of my coins are much lighter. Both of my coins are a bit oval. The new one is 23x25mm while the old one is 24x26mm and considerably flattened at one edge. From this evidence, I am expected to assign the coins to the early, middle or late groups? Experts on the series are invited to offer opinions.

    Please show your coins of the type (horseman winning) complete with measurements. RIC makes the point that coins of this type issued for Constantius show the victim wearing a pointed cap while those in the name of Magnentius never do. I do not have the type from Rome for Magnentius (and I have no Neopotian either). The victim is similar on the Magnentius' coins from other mints (Amiens below).

    As a side note: I bought my first coin of this type from Guy Clark at a show in 2000. This recent one was from his collection/stock being sold by his widow Valerie at the Fredericksburg show. Guy had some interesting coins. I bought eleven at this show.
    Jwt708, Johnnie Black, TJC and 35 others like this.
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  3. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter Just a guy making his way in the universe

    Cool coins @dougsmit ! I've never encountered the type so some nice catches.
  4. Guilder Pincher

    Guilder Pincher Well-Known Member

    Going straight for the gemmae familiares too.. Constantius didn't mess about. Thanks for the writeup!
  5. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

    Bought this from Gert Boersema a year or two ago. I'm not sure I can help you with your question, but the measurements here might be of interest. It's certainly on an oval flan.

    Ex Lückger:
    Magnentius AD 350-353, AE Centenionalis (22x24mm, 4.47 g) Lugdunum

    DN MAGNENTIVS PF AVG; Dr., cuir. and bareheaded, bust r., A behind
    GLORIA ROMANORVM; In ex: RPLG-dot; Emperor on horseback r., spearing enemy, shield and broken spear beneath horse
    RIC 116; very fine, some striking weakness, with ticket.
  6. gsimonel

    gsimonel Well-Known Member

    Supposedly, there is a FEL TEMP REPARATIO with this reverse type. I'd love to find one to add to my FTR varieties collection, but I've never seen one.
  7. Ken Dorney

    Ken Dorney Yea, I'm Cool That Way...

    The inspiration for the type goes back quite a long time before the Constantinian Era:

  8. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Geta (209 - 211 A.D.)
    AR Denarius
    O: IMP CAES P SEPT GETA PIVS AVG, Laureate head right.
    R: PONTIF TR P COS II, Geta on horseback riding left, spearing enemy beneath.
    Rome. A.D. 209
    BMC p. 359 17. RIC 68 (Rated Rare), RSC 13
  9. Gavin Richardson

    Gavin Richardson Well-Known Member

  10. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    Neat addition Doug. I like the detail of the horse's head. I spent a while looking in ric and couldn't come up with any difference other than the diameter.
    ominus1 likes this.
  11. Okidoki

    Okidoki Well-Known Member

    cool collection
  12. Finn235

    Finn235 Well-Known Member

    Very nice! I have been looking far and wide especually for a nice style/ high grade Magnentius, but they are not easy to nab at reasonable prices.

    Sometimes I wonder if this coin is an oh-so-distant relative of any of those Romans...

    Gadhaiya battle scene 1.jpg

    India, Malwa
    "Battle Scene" Gadhaiya
    C. 13th century
  13. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    That is a nice example. The small flans make most I have seen hard to 'read'. I had this IDed as Silaharas?
    Gary R. Wilson, Bing, Finn235 and 2 others like this.
  14. lrbguy

    lrbguy Well-Known Member

    They do exist. I got this one from CNG a couple of years ago.


    I was keen at the time to get at least one example of every type of FEL TEMP reverse. This completed the group.

    You will notice that unlike the GR reverse, the horseman is headed for two figures to the right.

    The obverse bust on this coin is pearl diademed; hence
    Constantius II; RIC VIII 153 for Rome.
    21 mm; 3.38g; 6o'clock.
    Reverse description: Emperor, nimbate and in military dress, with shield on l. arm, galloping to r., thrusting with spear at two barbarians wearing pointed caps who kneel before him and raise their arms.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
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  15. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    viii 313.jpg RIC62.jpg RIC295var.jpg
  16. lrbguy

    lrbguy Well-Known Member

    I guess not.
  17. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

  18. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    Randy, you are too modest, I'd rate you a full five troll expert. I was going to post the M but did not know about the gold one. NGC should hire you just to slab the FTR's they get. Off hand, I doubt that would be a really busy job.
    randygeki likes this.
  19. randygeki

    randygeki Coin Collector

    I'd be awful at grading. There would be a lot more "no decision" tags out there....... though some would be graded and "nice," Nice!" "very nice! "cool coin" and "oooh, thats neat"
    Caesar_Augustus likes this.
  20. Thierry Pruvost

    Thierry Pruvost Active Member

    Such a violent propaganda message. I have a real interest for this type of coins. Thanks to your share.
  21. arnoldoe

    arnoldoe Well-Known Member

    Patraos Tetradrachm 335-315 BC

    Justinian Solidus- With a Horseman spearing somebody on Justinian's shoulder
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