Are there any hard and fast rules as to what defines a Centenionalis. They seem to span A1 to A3? I read somewhere that they were introduced by Diocletian, but I haven't seen a coin of his described as a Centenionalis.
It's a type of coin introduced by Constantius II. It's usually thought to be the largest of his bronze denominations (so it would include all the common Fel Temp Reparatio coins), but we don't know for certain which coin type it was.
Yeah. I always had a problem with this "new" idea of labeling the denomination. Truth is, we simply do not know, and I personally believe its foolhardy to act like we do. I prefer the "old" method of just labeling them AE1-5 based upon size. AE because its copper, and size to give everyone an idea of what we are talking about. We simply have way too little information to know how the coinage system worked and what they were called, and trying to assign coin names gives the impression we know more than we actually do.
My understanding is that the term centenionalis is found in ancient Roman records. It is not a modern contrivance. We know Constantius II introduced the AE2 falling horseman type as a centenionalis. The question is, as the coins shrunk, did the Romans continue to use that word to refer to the largest bronze denomination?
I agree with what you said, but especially the part "did the Romans continue to use that word"? Unfortunately almost no one in the ancient world wrote about coinage, so we simply have tiny little snippets to rely on. Since these coins changed so drastically, so quickly, we simply do not know if they called a coin a centenionalis for only a few years before they changed the name again, or if they called smaller and smaller coins that name, or what. So, absent any definitive information as to what the coins were called, (like we KNOW the early small silver coins were called denari), I prefer to not name them at all so as to not infer we know more than we really do. A case in point. We read Constantius called that certain coin that name. What of the smaller coins that continued to be made? What were they called? Do we know or are we assuming the name and relationship? Do we know the exchange rates between them? As the coins shrank do we still know the names and values of the different sizes? Yes, the word centenionalis was used, but not often. I bet there are not more than a handful of references to that word from primary sources.
Well, I think most of the numismatic community abides by the convention of calling the AE2 and AE3 falling horsemen centenionalii. I certainly don't use the term for anything else. I don't even like AE2, 3, 4 etc. I prefer AExmm, describing the diameter precisely. Sometimes you wish you could go back in time and glean some real information from an ancient Roman. This is one of those times.
If you wish to restrict it to only a falling horsemen type, I would have less issue. It simply appears to me many dealers are calling all late roman bronzes this name, which is what I am objecting to specifically. I agree AExx is more descriptive, and maybe the whole AE1-5 is antiquated. I just used it since it eliminated precise measuring, (also consider many of these coins are not uniformly round), but would be fine with an AExx system.
Well yes, dealers can be very very imprecise. I never trust any of the information dealers give with their coins, although a handful of them are quite exact. I've seen everything from entirely wrong attributions to incorrect dimensions. Do some of them just make all the stuff up?
Lol, of course they do. Heck, I have a flip from B Max Mehl describing a coin as a "widow's mite". Below it he put the correct description of the coin as a Jewish War prutah. Marketing man, marketing. Some names just seem more attractive, and many a dealer is more concerned about his sales number than proper consumer education. Its not limited to our hobby at all. Heck, look at monstrous Buick's being called "sporty".
I'm an AE1-4 type. I agree there is ancient reference to the word but I'm less sure it referred to the horseman rather than the hut with horsemen being a double and the Phoenix a half. Is that all conjecture. Sure is. That's why I like AE1-4. Is a majorina Julian's bull or just dealer speak? I do use follis to mean standard unit coin of the day and not much more.
