When Is 1992 Really 1991, Or The Case of The Bahamas 1991 Dollar

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by 7Jags, Oct 18, 2021.

  1. 7Jags

    7Jags Well-Known Member

    Ok, as readers know as a sidelight I have been collecting esp. uncirculated coins of the former British Caribbean colonies (Bahamas is considered by most so even though they are in the Atlantic). I especially like those that were struck by Franklin Mint or by there both predecessor AND successor, the Royal Mint.

    Before I get to the end story, I have noted that both the FM and the RM have had rather poor record keeping at times and have flubbed up on occasion. We are not always certain in the 1970-2000 time period what was actually struck, in what type and metal, and which dates for which denominations. Many of the miscues are propagated by figures obtained by Krause which are frequently regurgitated by both Krause and secondary sources such as NGC and en.numimata (?) and others.

    So recently I became interested in the dollar and two dollar coins in currency and/or copper nickel strikes in the 1981-2000 time period. The two dollar coins are the most difficult as they were not included in 7 coin mint sets that were dated to this period, and then either were or were not issued separately, but the one dollar series also contains mysteries from this period.

    Leaving out the year 2000 issues, my revised list of each (all Royal Mint) and leaving out KM numbers:

    One Dollar: 1989, 1991, 1992, 1996,(2000)
    These are all of the conch shell reverse, QE II obverse. Until basically just now, nobody that I am aware of has independently reported the 1991 dollar to exist

    Two Dollar: 1991 (silver unc., so far unconfirmed in CuNi). Period, NO others of unc.
    These are of the flamingos reverse, QE II obverse

    So most recently, I noted that the only practical way of getting these was through RM issued 7 coin mint sets, 1c thru $1 coins. With some difficulty I got the 1996, the 1989 on order. I then ordered and got a 1992 Bahamas 7 coin Quincentennial set (1492-1992 Commem). These come in a folder in a sleeve with the Native American on the outside. Pictures are included.

    These should all be 1992 coins and have been on every set I have seen on internet searches and through personal observation. Well, when I finally checked my putative 1992 coins, THEY WERE ALL DATED 1991. This date was thought to have been reported erroneously by Krause, and to not actually exist. Well, here is the set and all coin are dated "1991":

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  3. DEA

    DEA Well-Known Member

    That's very interesting! Nifty, I might even say! Very odd. I guess they were including 1492 as the first year, instead of making 1493 the first year, if they commemorated 1991 as the 500. year. But then why label the folder "1492 to 1992"? I don't think I'm explaining that very well.

    However, I'm confused. In regards to the 1991 dollar, you wrote, "nobody that I am aware of has independently reported the 1991 dollar to exist." Yet, when I got to numista.com - https://en.numista.com/catalogue/pieces33975.html - it is indicated that 7% of the Numista users who own the dollar coins catalogued as KM 65b have a 1991. But I really don't have a clue what that number might be; however, it has to be more than "nobody" or none, right?
     
  4. 7Jags

    7Jags Well-Known Member

    Yes, it is confusing. I think Numista has some errors, and have found that to occur on quite a few coins I have checked on - they just don't jibe. I am not sure how they verify and have sent my opinion to them. Meanwhile I have continued to look and found not only no sets with 1991 coins in them but also no single dollar coins of that date; the same can not be said of the 1992 date.
    As far as 1991, several sources also seem to be in error with regards to the two dollar, and I think they replicate one original source. The two dollar coin IS known in uncirculated but in silver with no evidence of copper nickel.
    Also please note that a 1991 unc. dollar will NOT be the same frequency as a 1989 proof dollar.

    When I checked their section that relates to sellers offering coin, I find errors with regards to their attribution as far as specifics although this section more subjective.
     
    Mister T likes this.
  5. TheGame

    TheGame Well-Known Member

    Krause (and as a result, Numista) reports a lot of coins that are tough to impossible to actually confirm, especially on smaller countries like the Bahamas where information might be lacking. I also collect Bahamas and had not been able to confirm this set until now, so I'm very happy that 7Jags found one.

    As for the relative rarities, on types like this, even one or two people adding a coin can boost it by several percent. I added the 1991 to my collection as an experiment and it jumped from 7% to 9%. That jump implies that only 3 users have 1991 in their collection, and only about 50 users have any date of the type in their collection. Notice also that the 2000 dollar is at 12%. Despite this, I haven't been able to confirm its existence (if it does exist, it is almost certainly in a 7 coin set as well imo).
     
    DEA likes this.
  6. gxseries

    gxseries Coin Collector

    Is there a possibility that the outside case got swapped?
     
  7. 7Jags

    7Jags Well-Known Member

    I don't believe so as it is otherwise identical: there is an outer sleeve which could be as could the accompanying info cards, etc. however the inner card is sealed in with coins and not tampered with.
    So they may have had a short run of these "wrong date" mint sets. It still seems odd as we occasionally see with RM or FM products in that the whole point of the issue was to celebrate the 1992 500th anniversary of discovery, and that even with 1992 coins available they then stuck in 1991 coins....I love anomalies such as this.
     
    DEA likes this.
  8. 7Jags

    7Jags Well-Known Member

  9. Mister T

    Mister T Member

    Very nice - so most 1992 sets contain 1992 coins but some contain 1991 coins?
     
  10. 7Jags

    7Jags Well-Known Member

    Yes, exactly. Rather odd.... I am trying to find the 7 coin year 2000 millennium Bahamas unc. set with the dollar.
     
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