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When did PCGS start Designating Prooflike?
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<p>[QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 3249707, member: 112"]The terms and special designations of PL and DMPL have existed since long before the TPGs even existed. And the TPGs have assigned them to certain select coins since they opened their doors for business. For the most part these designations were usually only assigned to Morgans and some very nice gold issues, with Morgans being far more common than the gold of course. And there were a few other coins mixed in here and there but they were few and far between.</p><p><br /></p><p>Over time, and no I can't pin down the exact years but it was in the early part of this century, the designations started appearing on other coins, including world coins. </p><p><br /></p><p>The thing about this designation is that it is the only special designation that has always been based on physical measurements for a coin to be deemed worthy of the designation. Other than that there was no, and never has been, any limitation on the designation such as it can only be assigned to this series or that series, or only US coins. The only exception to this was that coins specifically minted to have the PL DMPL characteristics did not qualify for the designation.</p><p><br /></p><p>All of that said, has PCGS been reticent to give out the designation ? Of course they have, that's is and always has been a large part of their marketing. They want everybody to think that they are tougher than the other guys when it comes to grading and special designations. It's always been a company policy thing, just like it was with the 70 grade for many years. They rarely if ever gave them for years, and then suddenly they changed and gave them out left and right.</p><p><br /></p><p>But they have always given out a few 70s or a few PLs or a few DMPLs here and there. And they pretty much had to just to convince the market that sure they'd give them out, but only when the coins were worthy. That's one of the things that supposedly made PCGS special. As I said, marketing, and quite deliberate marketing.</p><p><br /></p><p>To counter this, NGC has always given out the grades and special designations to any coin that was worthy of them. Their marketing was OK if PCGS wants to be that way then we'll give them out when the coins are actually worthy instead of pretending to be overly tough. And make no mistake, that's all PCGS was doing - pretending. And the marketing worked for both companies.</p><p><br /></p><p>As to your question about whom were they trying to please when they suddenly decided to give the designations ? Pretty much everybody, not just some individual. It's no different than any of the TPGs have made to their policies over the years, and all of them have made many changes. NGC flat out refused to even accept any coin minted after 1964 until 2001 - then they changed. All the TPGs refused to slab problem coins of any kind until 2007, then they changed. PCGS refused to give 70 grades more than once in a great while until 2004, then they changed and started giving them out left and right. And that's just a few of the policy changes, major policy changes, there have been more. But none of them were made by any TPG to please any individual, they were made to please everybody.</p><p><br /></p><p>All of the TPGs do this, make these changes, in order to compete with the other guy. Those are their very business models - do whatever we have to do to get the business. Hand out special designations, fine we can do that. Loosen grading, fine we can do that. Slab problem coins, fine we can do that. It is a pattern that has existed since they opened their doors for business. </p><p><br /></p><p>Much of this stuff people know from memory because they lived through it. And for those that don't remember it, it is by examining the patterns that you can kind of pin down dates as to when any or all of these changes occurred. And you can examine the patterns by searching auction records, particularly old ones, and pop reports, again old ones. But doing that takes a lot of work, a lot of it I've already done, which coupled with living through it is why I know the dates that I do know. But this one, I can't pin that one down for you. But you can find out yourself, if ya do the research.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="GDJMSP, post: 3249707, member: 112"]The terms and special designations of PL and DMPL have existed since long before the TPGs even existed. And the TPGs have assigned them to certain select coins since they opened their doors for business. For the most part these designations were usually only assigned to Morgans and some very nice gold issues, with Morgans being far more common than the gold of course. And there were a few other coins mixed in here and there but they were few and far between. Over time, and no I can't pin down the exact years but it was in the early part of this century, the designations started appearing on other coins, including world coins. The thing about this designation is that it is the only special designation that has always been based on physical measurements for a coin to be deemed worthy of the designation. Other than that there was no, and never has been, any limitation on the designation such as it can only be assigned to this series or that series, or only US coins. The only exception to this was that coins specifically minted to have the PL DMPL characteristics did not qualify for the designation. All of that said, has PCGS been reticent to give out the designation ? Of course they have, that's is and always has been a large part of their marketing. They want everybody to think that they are tougher than the other guys when it comes to grading and special designations. It's always been a company policy thing, just like it was with the 70 grade for many years. They rarely if ever gave them for years, and then suddenly they changed and gave them out left and right. But they have always given out a few 70s or a few PLs or a few DMPLs here and there. And they pretty much had to just to convince the market that sure they'd give them out, but only when the coins were worthy. That's one of the things that supposedly made PCGS special. As I said, marketing, and quite deliberate marketing. To counter this, NGC has always given out the grades and special designations to any coin that was worthy of them. Their marketing was OK if PCGS wants to be that way then we'll give them out when the coins are actually worthy instead of pretending to be overly tough. And make no mistake, that's all PCGS was doing - pretending. And the marketing worked for both companies. As to your question about whom were they trying to please when they suddenly decided to give the designations ? Pretty much everybody, not just some individual. It's no different than any of the TPGs have made to their policies over the years, and all of them have made many changes. NGC flat out refused to even accept any coin minted after 1964 until 2001 - then they changed. All the TPGs refused to slab problem coins of any kind until 2007, then they changed. PCGS refused to give 70 grades more than once in a great while until 2004, then they changed and started giving them out left and right. And that's just a few of the policy changes, major policy changes, there have been more. But none of them were made by any TPG to please any individual, they were made to please everybody. All of the TPGs do this, make these changes, in order to compete with the other guy. Those are their very business models - do whatever we have to do to get the business. Hand out special designations, fine we can do that. Loosen grading, fine we can do that. Slab problem coins, fine we can do that. It is a pattern that has existed since they opened their doors for business. Much of this stuff people know from memory because they lived through it. And for those that don't remember it, it is by examining the patterns that you can kind of pin down dates as to when any or all of these changes occurred. And you can examine the patterns by searching auction records, particularly old ones, and pop reports, again old ones. But doing that takes a lot of work, a lot of it I've already done, which coupled with living through it is why I know the dates that I do know. But this one, I can't pin that one down for you. But you can find out yourself, if ya do the research.[/QUOTE]
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When did PCGS start Designating Prooflike?
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