What's your experience in crossing ICG slabs over to PCGS or NGC slabs?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by wxcoin, Jul 17, 2021.

  1. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 66+ Supporter

    I have a group of coins in ICG slabs that I'm thinking of sending to PCGS using the crossover option. My main reason is to fill registry slots in several sets I have. For the most part, I think the ICG grades look reasonable when compared to others in PCGS and NGC slabs.

    I'm sure many of you have done this and I was wondering what results you have gotten: same grade, lower grade, higher grade, details grade?
     
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  3. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I have never tried that type of crossover. My perception is that you have two strikes against you when you submit a coin to PCGS in the competition's holder. My approach was always bite the bullet, crack it out and send it in raw.

    I have seen ICG coins that were conservatively graded, which were every bit as good as their PCGS counterparts. I have also seen more of them that were "optimistically graded." I think that you need to take an objective look at the coins to decide if they have chance of crossing in the same or even higher grade.

    If you were a really fussy ICG grader, you might get most of them to cross in the same grade. If you sort of went with the flow, and bought what came along, I think that you chances are lower.

    Several people in my local club have had their coins graded by ICG because it's local and convenient. When I looked at the coins, I saw a fair amount of what I would call over grading. But that's just my perception.
     
  4. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 66+ Supporter

    Thanks for the feedback. I always wondered how a grader would look at a competitors opinion and that thought crossed my mind many times. Part of me wants to submit them in their plastic and see what comes back and the other part, crack them out first. It would be interesting to do both and compare the results; is there a bias if submitted in their slabs. It would be an interesting experiment but I don't want to throw money away either. In most instances, if the coins came back one grade lower then I probably would still do OK money wise if they all straight graded.
     
  5. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    I agree.

    I have never used anyone’s crossover service . . . Not even once.
     
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  6. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Whoops . . . I think I might have just caught myself telling a whopper, but am unsure.

    A couple of years ago a customer offered strong money for an 1861-S quarter in NGC XF45 if I would get it into a CAC PCGS XF40 or higher. I can’t recall if I cracked that coin and submitted it, or if I crossed it.

    My prior post may be untrue . . .
     
  7. halfcent1793

    halfcent1793 Well-Known Member

    I didn't exactly do a crossover. I broke an ICG MS65 Morgan out of the slab and sent it to PCGS raw. It came back MS65.
     
  8. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    If it's a satisfactory grade, leave it alone. Why pay a another TPG for another guess! Good luck with your decision.
     
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  9. Scott J

    Scott J Well-Known Member

    It would take a lot of coins submitted over a period of time to draw a statistically relevant conclusion. But it definitely would be interesting.
     
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  10. Lueds

    Lueds Well-Known Member

    Op stated he wants to add the coins to his registry set. Can't do that in a ICG slab.
     
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  11. whopper64

    whopper64 Well-Known Member

    I have several ICG graded coins. Purchased them at quite a discount versus same-graded PCGS/NGC. The ICG coins are part of several collections that are going to be passed on to my daughter and (hopefully) her children. If I had wanted to re-sell said coins, I probably would not have purchased ICG graded. The market perception is that NGC/PCGS are worth more (sell for more) than ICG or even ANACS graded coins. I agree with most of the others that it may be better to break the coins out and submit them raw.
     
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  12. Mac McDonald

    Mac McDonald Well-Known Member

    Well, for one thing...and I don't think in his case he's doing it for this reason...but in certain cases it could mean thousands (and thousands) of dollars more in PCGS than ICG, depending on the coin, et al. I know well...by accident/fluke, I came to own such a coin listed at $10K in PCGS, with only one other in pop...and can't get even a nibble on it in the ICG slab it's in...and even Heritage wouldn't help with getting it crossed even if I agreed to consign. Been mulling over the raw option for months...can't quite bring myself to crack it out, even though I believe it's graded correctly. Enough...sorry to ramble.
     
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  13. Thomas R Reynolds

    Thomas R Reynolds Active Member

    I submitted 5 coins to PCGS ( 4 Lincoln proofs and a Morgan) that I cracked out of ICG slabs. Mine were also going to my registry sets. 4 out of the 5 came back with a lower grade than ICG. The Morgan came back as Cleaned. Very disappointed but I got the ICG's years ago at a great price so it wasnt too bad.
     
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  14. C-B-D

    C-B-D Well-Known Member

    I’ve had two recently. Not crossovers but crack outs:
    The first was an 1889 Seated Liberty Dime in ICGS MS62 Doubled Die Reverse. I actually cracked and sent it raw. PCGS graded it MS62 and it sold for big money at DLRC.
    The other was an 1838 Seated Dime in ICG AU50. I could tell it had been cleaned but I wanted the variety on it (Fortin 111a). I cracked it and sent it anyway, figuring even AU details would sell for more than the ICG AU50. In the end I think it was a waste of time and money. It sold for just under $140 as a PCGS AU details coin. I suspect it would’ve sold for something like that in the ICG holder.
     
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  15. micbraun

    micbraun coindiccted

    There’s one advantage when crossing them over, PCGS usually does not break them out if the coin won’t get a straight grade. I think it depends on what you indicate on the form. I’ve tried to cross over ICG coins to PCGS several times with results across the board… it really depends on the coins.
     
  16. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    If youre completely confident in the coin it's better to crack it out and send it raw. They don't have to grade through plastic and its also a little cheaper. Crossover is more for coins that would lose significant value losing a grade, coins of high value you don't want to risk cracking, and coins that are questionable and may have had a generous grade.

    The other thing too is its extremely rare to gain a point with a crossover.

    ICG slabs have an extra disadvantage for crossovers in that they dont have prongs and the rings hide the edges so they have to kind of guess at that
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2021
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  17. kazuma78

    kazuma78 Supporter! Supporter

    I've only submitted 1 coin to PCGS that was once ICG and it was a crack out. This coin was originally in an ICG MS67 FB holder and I bought it around 2009/2010 for a song. I loved the toning so I didn't care if it came back a lower grade, as long as it didn't come back QC. PCGS gave it a MS67 FB also. It's one of the prettiest toned mercury dimes I've ever seen in hand, especially because the toning is just as vibrant regardless of the angle you hold the coin at. Many toners are only colorful and pretty if held at the right angle and in the right lighting.
    33807676_large.jpg
     
  18. BlackberryPie

    BlackberryPie I like pie

    Tempted but doubtful it'd be as high...
    Screenshot_20210327-175704_eBay.jpg Screenshot_20210327-175713_eBay.jpg
     
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  19. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 66+ Supporter

    Thanks for all of your comments. What I think I'm going to do is crack them out and submit them. One is a proof brown IHC. My plan is to create a new thread in the future when I get the coins back. I'll reveal the IGC grade and the corresponding PCGS grade. I'll attach true view images as well.
     
  20. wxcoin

    wxcoin Getting no respect for 66+ Supporter

    I definitely wouldn't try to cross that one over. Not much value either way. If it was an original full red example I'd probably go for it; even if it dropped to a 65.
     
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  21. Conder101

    Conder101 Numismatist

    One thing, you CAN'T do a crossover from ICG to NGC. NGC only accepts PCGS slabs for crossover. Slabs from any other company you have to give them permission to crack them out first. Since it can't come back in the original holder if it isn't good enough to cross, it isn't really a crossover. It's just a regular submission.
     
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