How does this interface with eBay sales of bullion?? Ebay takes great pains to say they are NOT the seller, etc. Should we NOT ship ANY bullion to Minnesota via an auction or buy-it-now on eBay? What about numismatic coins, like, for instance, a Seated Liberty half dollar? Still 90% silver.
“Bullion Coin … means to the State any coin containing one percent by weight of silver, gold, platinum or other precious metal and if you sell to some one in the State you need to have a license even if your not from that State I don't if this was changed
Yeah, I got that, but what about sales on eBay? I have no problem adding this to my listings, "No bids accepted from residents of Minnesota. Any such bids will be deleted and reported to eBay." But is it necessary?
In the definition it specifically refers to bullion as non numismatic items. As far as I understand it, even the older Engelhard bars that can be considered exonumia are exempt along with ase's and "junk"silver. The problem is that most sellers would rather refuse sales to an entire marketplace than read the language.
The quote in my original post came from a coin dealer's site. Isn't the first time I've seen it or similar on dealer sites. If bulk ASEs are concidered bullion as are Maple Leafs how can a state regulate the Mint? A circulated US coin is still worth face value Iike the ASEs but when worn is concidered bullion so how will they regulate those?
I think you would need to look at the states list of exceptions to see what they consider as bullion.
States are trying to do some consumer protection and de-incentivize fencing stolen goods to PM dealers. Minnesota went too far, in including out-of-state dealers. My state, Pennsylvania, requires any PM dealer doing physical business in any county to take out a very cheap license in that county. It creates a database of possible destinations for stolen goods.
Here what's on there web site Follow these steps in order to apply for a Bullion Coin Dealer registration: Go to PulsePortal.com, select "Minnesota Department of Commerce" as the “Program” and "Bullion Coin Dealers" as the “Board”. Then click on "Submit License Application.” Click “Organization” as the “Entity Type” and “Bullion Coin Dealer” as the “License Type.” Enter the name of the company, the state, and the company’s Federal Employer Identification Number (FEIN). Continue filling out the required information within the electronic application. Fees are paid at the end of the application. The initial registration fee is $30.00. In accordance with Minn. Stat. §16E.22, this fee includes a $5.00 OET surcharge, which is being collected on behalf of the Minnesota Office of Enterprise Technology to fund a statewide electronic licensing system. In addition to the registration fee, the online system vendor also charges a $9.95 transaction fee and a $1.00 credit card fee. At the end of the application, you will receive a “Confirmation Number” that can be used to check the status of the application within Pulse Portal by using the “Application Status Inquiry” feature. If a discrepancy is found or the application is approved, that will be indicated by the “Application Status Inquiry” feature. After the registration is issued, you can print a copy of it. A "State ID and PIN number will be printed on page 2 of the registration. These numbers must be used to set up an account on PulsePortal.com. Once the account is set up for your business, you will be able to submit individual coin dealer representative registration applications and perform other functions on the system. The original Minnesota Surety Bond for the place of business must be mailed to the Minnesota Department of Commerce. The Power of Attorney document must also be attached to the Surety Bond.
Prosecuting them should be interesting because they would lose. That portion of the law is unconstitutional. The state is trying to regulate interstate commerce and that is clearly set forth as being the domain of the Federal government.
And we have a winnah!!! DING, DING, DING! States and local governments routinely pass unconstitutional laws on the theory that most people are too poor to be able to hire constitutional lawyers. Pays to join the ACLU.
A state may not impose a tax for the privilege of engaging in, and carrying on, interstate commerce, but it might be permitted to require a license if doing so does not impose a burden on interstate commerce
If I remember right, Heritage Galleries won't ship to Minnesota anymore. Somewhere on their auction site, they have included this notice to that affect. I stumbled upon it while browsing their site awhile back (2 months ago?). They also have the catch-all notification that: All sales are subject to federal, state and local laws, and all necessary licenses, certificates and registration is the sole responsibility of the participating individuals and/or their assigned representatives. That's a major player to take out of the coin market loop.
I should have been more specific and said "junk silver coin" sorry for the confusion. junk silver jewelry and modern bars are subject to the law
Thanks - In a roundabout way, that sort of changes everything. If 90% bulk silver is excluded, and US Mint products are excluded as numismatic coins, then the law is not as severe as I thought. I'd call your post "good news" for stackers.
I believe you'll find that a significant number of "Legitimate Dealers" regularly sell and deliver to Minnesota "collectors". I haven't yet heard of any honest "Legitimate Dealer" who has been adversely affected by the law with an action initiated by the Departments responsible for enforcement of this law. I personally would appreciate receiving PM specifics of any honest legal dealer who've been directly contacted by the Minnesota authorities responsible for Statute oversight. I personally could write a treatise describing the perceived injustices/immoral actions perpetrated upon citizens throughout the country, without mechanism for recourse, by seemingly unscrupled individuals. In the past, I believe virtually anyone could call themselves an assortment of grandiose uncertified titles, often selling/delivering less than promised. A common "title" utilized without credentials is "Dealer". I believe the essence of the legislation was necessary to establish some legitimacy to an industry absorbing unrecoverable wealth from many "investors". Although several have spoken of the "Commerce Clause" as a Federal/Congressional privy, research should disclose it's not an exclusive grant of power to Congress. It should be determined that there are at least 4 interpretations of shared or exclusive authority having many judicial precedents. I believe that future Congressional action will unify legislation for Federal action to curtail existing incoherence between states, pertaining to the lucrative "bullion" industry. JMHO
Chris oughta know -- any big pushback yet? Any evidence the regulators are prowling around coin shows or flea markets or hotel suites?
I believe your prediction accurate, but not optimal. I agree that it is good for people who need it, to have legislation in place to protect them, but blanket legislation is bit the way to go. I still believe it would have been better to call it what it was when it happened though. All of the legislation is simply an attempted preemptive attack on swindlers who will only find alternative ways to do things anyway. In many cases for the fractional amounts reimbursed to victims, I'm sure most would have rather took a slightly bigger "loss" to have an internet stranger bring Louisville and Patella into contact.... know what I'm sayin? PM to discuss services
