What's going on with this 1953 D Franklin Half?

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by stldanceartist, Sep 22, 2019.

  1. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks Supporter

    Hey everyone!

    Just picked this up today and it's got my curiosity piqued - it's a 1953 D Franklin Half Dollar (well, that's obvious) that I bought because IMO it is a "Bugs Bunny" Obverse Die Clash (or maybe it's better known as a "Booger Nose" since the clash is under the nostril.)

    However, taking a closer look at it once I got it home, I'm noticing something really interesting happening under his chin - to me, that looks like a doubled die. There is clearly an extra outline of metal under his chin (nowhere else on the coin that I can see) plus it looks like a slice was taken out of his throat. None of my other dates of BU Franklins have this "slice" - but of the 4 other 1953 D Bugs Bunny Obv Die Clashes I have in my possession, they ALL show it to some degree. (This coin is MUCH stronger than the others, though.)

    1953 D Franklin Half PCGS MS64FBL.jpg

    1953 D Franklin Half PCGS MS64FBL - Profile 1.jpg

    1953 D Franklin Half PCGS MS64FBL - Profile 2.jpg

    What do you think - is this just a known marker of the FS-402 (looking at the PCGS Price Guide, each of their examples has that slice showing, but none have the extra line of metal under his chin like this example. What's going on here?
     
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  3. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    Machine doubling
     
  4. cpm9ball

    cpm9ball CANNOT RE-MEMBER

    @stldanceartist

    It looks like machine doubling to me. Have you ever looked at a Kennedy half that has the doubled profile? You can see clearly the curve of the facial feature.
    1530495-1966SMS50cPROFILE[1].jpg
    Chris
     
  5. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks Supporter

    @Paddy54 - Except I really don't think it's machine doubling - because it's ONLY in this one spot (nowhere else on the coin.) IIRC about machine doubling (which I've seen many, many examples) it's caused by the die or planchet shifting during the strike, which effectively smushes the entire design in one direction. Can machine doubling happen in one specific area only?

    And the same thing is happening on 4 different coins I have (all the same date, all the same die variety) - it's just really a lot stronger on this coin.

    @cpm9ball - actually, I did cherrypick a 1966 DDO this summer, so I'm familiar with it - here's mine I picked up this summer:

    1966 SMS Kennedy Half DDO.jpg


    This coin actually looks a lot closer to the "Goiter Neck" varieties in the Franklin series, although mine isn't nearly as strong as those.
     
  6. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    Ive seen this on bust halfs, as well 1921 peace dollars and yes it can be in a limited area of the profile.
     
  7. Islander80-83

    Islander80-83 Well-Known Member

    Plus I wouldn't consider yours a Bugs Bunny. Let's see your other 4.

    Here's one of mine.

    S20181005_001-ccfopt.jpg S20181005_002-ccfopt.jpg S20181005_003-ccfopt.jpg S20181005_004-ccfopt.jpg S20181005_006-ccfopt.jpg S20181005_008-ccfopt.jpg
     
  8. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks Supporter

    As you most likely know, there are several different varieties of Bugs Bunny obverse die clashes for the series. Some of the stronger ones (like the one you posted, and the 1955) are around the upper lip/mouth area. There are also some in the nostril area - here is another 1953 D I have where the clash is a bit stronger:

    1953 D Franklin Half 2 Bugs Bunny - Nose.jpg

    And another:

    1953 D Franklin Half Bugs Bunny - Nose.jpg
     
    Islander80-83 likes this.
  9. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks Supporter

    Here is a 1954 D I have with the nose clash plus the E PLURIBUS UNUM clash behind the head:

    1954 D Franklin Half Booger Nose - Nose.jpg
     
    yakpoo and Islander80-83 like this.
  10. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

  11. Islander80-83

    Islander80-83 Well-Known Member

    @stldanceartist-

    Yep, those are much better. Your first one is there as well. For me personally, if I can't see these errors or varieties with the naked eye or I need a scanning electron microscope to see it, I pretty much move on. I just can't get down into the weeds with these........Just me, don't take it personal.

    Nice Bugs Bunny's BTW! Those coins look Mint State from here! icon_smile_thumbsup.gif
     
  12. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks Supporter

    I just want to say to everyone who has replied to this thread - even though I might disagree with what you say (for now) I appreciate the time you took to share your thoughts. This isn't about "winning an argument" or "being right" - it's about learning and sharing information/knowledge. At least for me.

    Thanks again.
     
  13. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Yes it can and it's common of the profile.
     
    Paddy54 likes this.
  14. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    Islander80-83 likes this.
  15. ksparrow

    ksparrow Coin Hoarder

    Interesting thread,and some really nice closeup photos. thanks all for the knowledge.
     
  16. geekpryde

    geekpryde Husband and Father

    I owned a Bugs Bunny, and normally its alot more obvious than your example. Personally, I wouldnt call yours (in the original post) a true Bugs Bunny, but thats just one mans opinion.

    here was mine:

    1951 50C Bugs Bunny PCGS 24592262 CAC Obv Closeup-.jpg
     
    Islander80-83 likes this.
  17. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks Supporter

    Okay, so (in the interest of having fun and providing the best photos I can to help people check out the coin and further the discussion) I decided to take a couple more images to share.

    Image 1: closeup of the nose to show the die clash

    I'm certain this is the clashed die, since I can look at the coin in hand, but this photo might help those having trouble also seeing it.

    1953 D Franklin Half PCGS MS64FBL - Booger.jpg

    Images 2 & 3: the chin and neck area to show what my original question was trying to figure out

    1953 D Franklin Half PCGS MS64FBL - Profile 3.jpg

    1953 D Franklin Half PCGS MS64FBL - Profile 4.jpg

    Now, what I'm seeing in hand is that there is a ridge in between the lower section of the extra metal and the edge of the profile proper (red arrows). Also note that there is a section of the extra metal where it disappears into the fields (yellow arrow.) And there is a section right at the tip of his chin that absolutely looks like it could be strike doubling (blue arrow) because it's relatively flat.

    1953 D Franklin Half PCGS MS64FBL - Profile 3 copy.jpg

    But if it were truly mechanical/strike doubling, would the doubling disappear in the middle of it like this (yellow arrow)? I've always read that mechanical/strike doubling happens during the strike - so it's going to be somewhat consistent from end to end (either all the same magnitude or increasing in magnitude from one end to the other.) How would it be possible for this to be an example of mechanical/strike doubling and have it disappear halfway through? And how could there be a ridge in between two raised areas? Sure, the blue looks like it could be mechanical/strike doubling...but not the yellow/red areas. (But that's just me - I'm happy to be corrected if someone can explain how it could come to be.)

    I'm really interested to hear if these new images help change anyone's mind or reinforce what they were already thinking.

    Thanks!
     
    Paddy54 likes this.
  18. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I don't know what else to call it. This example shows changes to the size of the doubling. It goes from thick to thin at the chin, it goes to thick at the neck and back to thin below that.
    Image_0538.jpg
     
    yakpoo likes this.
  19. stldanceartist

    stldanceartist Minister of Silly Walks Supporter

    First off, thanks for adding that picture - that's a really cool coin. And that's not considered a DDO?

    So, what I see is a relatively consistent extra image from start to finish - bottom lip to just above a "very naughty bit indeed" (for all the Monty Python fans.) I get that it might not have to include the entire design - but it doesn't restart halfway down her breast (that I can tell.) I suppose I could see that as an example of how mine could potentially be created...but I'm not completely convinced yet haha

    EDIT: Also, since the machinery that your coin was made with is different from the machinery my coin was made with (I just read a bit on how your coin was doubled using a screw press), how would that compare/contrast with a more modern minting process/machinery?
     
  20. Paddy54

    Paddy54 Variety Collector

    I had an 1824 doubled the same on its profile.Thats how I knew exactly what I was looking at. Nice coin Larry
     
    ldhair likes this.
  21. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Machine doubling has many types and names. Ejection doubling, shift doubling, push doubling and slide doubling. I don't know what to call your coin.
     
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