What's going on with this 1935 Walking Liberty Half Dollar?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by flyers10, Feb 11, 2015.

  1. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator--selling--make an offer I can't refuse

    Looks like a pitted reverse die struck it. As if rust had been buffed from the die leaving pitting (incuse) resulting in raised corresponding "bubble" like effects on the coin. That's how it could happen...
     
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Here's just one of the problems I have with that having been caused by a rusty die. Look at there where bumps are, they surround the TED and S. And they are on the fields, but not on the letters. And on a die the fields are the high points and the letters are low points. And where would water or moisture gather and sit so that the die would rust ? Well I sure don't think it would be a high point, not one in that close of a proximity to several low points.

    Here is a picture of a US coin that was struck with a rusty die, look at where the bumps and pits are -

    http://coins.ha.com/c/lot-image.zx?saleNo=1159&lotNo=7812&lotIdNo=16030&inventoryNo=0&id=6882143

    And it is described as such here -

    http://coins.ha.com/itm/seated-half...ikely-prompted-pcgs-to-state-su/a/1159-7812.s

    That said it's pretty unusual to find US coins, other than early coinage, struck with rusty dies. And rarely one that was struck in the 1900's. But I have never seen a Walker that was, not even one.

    Could this be one ? Yeah, it's possible. But coins struck with rusty dies have a peculiar and specific look, and this just aint it. And given the above, the location of the bumps, I'm having a hard time understanding it.
     
  4. silentnviolent

    silentnviolent accumulator--selling--make an offer I can't refuse

  5. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    Doug, there is nothing you have said that I can disagree with. My problem remains. After everything has been said here, as unlikely as it may be, there is nothing, IMO, more likely than rusty dies.

    Let's try this by the process of elimination. I see no way it could possibly be from the planchet. The anomaly is raised and it is not in the lettering. Can anyone disagree with that?
     
  6. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Dick I said long ago that I am baffled. That hasn't changed.
     
  7. ROLLJUNKIE

    ROLLJUNKIE Active Member

    Is there any chance the coin could have been plated? Sorry if that's a dumb question.
     
    silentnviolent likes this.
  8. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    No. I guess I agree now it didn't originate in the planchet. If it's from the die, there are others out there like it.
     
  9. davidh

    davidh soloist gnomic

    A close look at the OP's first picture shows that the lettering "NTED S" also shows roughness. A polished rusted die might be the answer. The only other thing I can think of is Strike Through when the die was pressed, although I can't imagine what material might have been involved. It does look like plating bubbles like on the cent in the picture but, of course, the half wasn't plated.
     

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  10. messydesk

    messydesk Well-Known Member

    I agree that it's not die erosion. Other peripheral lettering is sharp and there are no heavy patches of flow lines. A pitted die is possible, but the pitting normally seen on Morgan dollars is much "sharper" than this. Also, pitted dies seem uncharacteristic of the 1930s. I will therefore recommend that you "poke it with a stick" -- a test occasionally cited on VAMWorld for determining if what you see is really a planchet flaw. In this case, you're seeing if there's occluded gas in the planchet.

    And by "stick", I mean a rose thorn or cactus spine. Poke at the largest one and see if you observe deformation.

    Another thought: Glue on the surface of a coin can be very deceptive. If the bumps come off when you poke it with a stick, that's what it is.
     
  11. rlm's cents

    rlm's cents Numismatist

    Now that is one that didn't come to mind. That is probably because it seems very unlikely that one could get glue on the field without getting it on the devices. But, hey, that makes it about as likely as anything anyone else has mentioned.
     
  12. flyers10

    flyers10 Collector of US Coinage

    Thanks for everyone taking a stab on what is going. Might just try out the "stick" later on. Will post what the results are.
     
  13. mikediamond

    mikediamond Coin Collector

    I'm stumped. I would have to examine the coin under a microscope to have any hope of making progress toward an accurate diagnosis.
     
  14. flyers10

    flyers10 Collector of US Coinage

    Hi Mike. Mind if I send you the coin and see what you think?
    Craig
     
  15. mikediamond

    mikediamond Coin Collector

    That'll be fine. PM me and I'll send you my mailing address.
     
  16. flyers10

    flyers10 Collector of US Coinage

    Done. Thanks.
     
  17. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    That is VERY, VERY true, and it has fooled me so many times, and I considered it, here, but was not as brave as you to mention it. But it is a contender in these quirky "error" evaluations, it really is.
     
  18. flyers10

    flyers10 Collector of US Coinage

    Mike got the coin and hand and was nice enough to take the time to look at it. Here is the what he found. The defect that drew your interest is a patch of die deterioration. Die wear can be surprisingly localized at times.
    Thanks again Mike for taking the time!
     
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  19. Paul M.

    Paul M. Well-Known Member

    Neat.

    When you get it back, any chance you could post a more close-up view of one of the letters inside the affected area? I'd be interested to see if there's anything at all visible in the devices.
     
  20. tommyc03

    tommyc03 Senior Member

    Hmmm, so I was right.
     
    flyers10 likes this.
  21. flyers10

    flyers10 Collector of US Coinage

    I will give it a try!
     
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