what's a reasonable value

I don't understand why they keep calling the Cherrios Sac a "Pattern" coin (or pattern reverse). They struck 5500 of the suckers and released them for circulation. How is that a "Pattern"?

Granted, the Cherrios dollars were struck before the regular business strike dollars and the design change came between the two strikings...but still, the Cherrios dollars were struck with the expressed intent to release for circulation...not a "Pattern" (imho).

When I read "Pattern" reverse, it somehow seems like the author is trying to say that a mistake was made...no mistake was made! The US Mint intended to strike those coins with that die...at the time, that WAS the approved working die!

Just because they changed the design some time later, how does that make this die a "Pattern"? I suppose all the wheat pennies from 1909-1958 were struck with "Pattern" reverses, too.

 

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Great find and grade....but I would hold on to it as the prices of these coins have fallen. The economy and the fact that they are only worth what another collector is willing to pay. I have found since the economy has taken a drop so have most coin prices...even some key coins well know items have droped. IE 1937 D 3 legger I paid over 1300.00 for mine in unc. now you can pick them up for 895.00 . If you don't need the $$$$ hold it as they may turn upward after things calm down .IMHO Great find

 

yakpoo i understand what you are saying,as i said earlier there are alot of variables to take into consideration and i have read many articles on this since my discovery and did alot of research as to what the general consensus is,was it there intention to make this a pattern for just these 5500 coins? who knows and yes i have several other questions or scenarios going thru my head but it is still what it is, it is not gold,or a 100 year old coin this i understand and i am still learning what patterns and proofs are, i was always fascinated by coins but got confused by the language of coins and what was valuable or not ect. ect., but not to argue why is the 1916 d merc. dime so sought after there were 264000 minted and i could be wrong here hence i am just learning, or is it sought after because of the artist and please correct me i dont want to say anything to offend especially when i do not know much about the older coins as of yet but i do ask alot of questions and do a fair bit of researching, and here is a question what exactally is a pattern coin or why is a coin labeled pattern?

 

I've seen some pattern coins come up on eBay ad Heritage, but I've never had enough money to actually own any of them. The ones I've seen were used in the selection process for new coinage. A number of them would be minted to help lawmakers and Mint personnel choose a design or test materials. They were never intended for circulation (perhaps a pattern expert will correct those statements...but that's what I "think" I know about patterns).

Perhaps the Cherrios "pattern" reverse was only intended as a pattern and they used it because they had to get some coins out the door before design was finalized. My contention is that if that happened...and that die was used to strike coins intended for circulation, it is (by definition) no longer a pattern.

http://www.coinfacts.com/patterns/pattern_coins.html

Events surrounding the 1916d Mercury dime is another fascinating topic. I have a really good article on that subject somewhere. I'll post when I find it.

Please don't get me wrong...you have a very valuable coin. I would lock it away until the Sac dollars become really popular...it's the Key to the series! I think it's even more interesting/valuable as a circulating coin than as a non-circulating "pattern".

It almost seems as though the Numismatic world is trying to marginalize this coin as some sort of accident/error and not acknowedge it as the true "must have" key to the series.

 

thanks for the info and i have a better understanding of a pattern coin but i can also see where the confusion comes from in calling this a pattern coin,thats why i have been doing alot of reading on this and you have answered a few questions,its something only they would know
ok question here a pattern would not be put into circulation anywhere,includeing to private collectors or ordering from the mint itself? from what i have read that would be a proof and not a pattern and please correct me here because i am probabally wrong

 

oh and i can understand a collectors anger or frustaration on this,i will assume they used explanation #2 for calling this a pattern, in this case a so called pattern was put into a cereal box instead of offered to collectors first or offered as a proof, so in a way it's backwards as to who got the better quality coin first and hence another variable for consideration

 

ok i need some serious input on this, if this was in your collection what would be the least ammount you would sell it for, i have figures in mind but if i do keep it i will be putting insurance on it as well, but all in all where would you draw the line? and where would you go to insure this.and i will get pics posted as soon as possible,i do not own a camera as of yet.i didnt deem it a necessity untill now

 

Well first of all, if it were in my collection, it would never see the light of day again! LOL! Seriously, I collect these and this would be the mother lode of all coins so it would go into my collection permanently. So for answering this question, I may not be the best person to ask.

Now if I were to buy this coin, I probably wouldn't even consider it unless it was at least half or less than the PCGS price guide list. If money is coming out of my pocket, I will usually pay half of the list price unless of course I am trading, then I will go upwards towards list price....assuming that I am getting list price for my coins as well. Chances are that you will get more than half of what list price is, but I would be really surprised if you get list price going through any auction place. I could be wrong on this because it is such a key coin at a good grade. Seeems like you are already doing your research, so do a search of all the major auction places and see what the trend is. I looked at Teletrade for you and I can tell you that the prices have been falling quite steadily over the past few years for this coin. Based on these trends, it almost seems best to sell it now than later.

As far as insurance goes....there is a thread on here that is still new that has to do with insurance on coins. I would recommend Hugh Woods. You will not find insurance less than his anywhere and if you do, I want to know about it. It may cost around $100 a year or less for insurance on this one coin. Thats a small price to pay for a calm piece of mind. Good luck.

 

thanks jaceravone,and yes i have done alot of research on this particular coin,heritage,teletrade,ect as well as alot of reading on it as well. its been up and down and all around 66 going higher than a 68 and so on,but if i do decide to keep it would the pcgs ammount be a estimated value to place on the coin,and yes i will get pics i think its a beutiful coin and thanks for the insurance info

 

What a great coin to just have in your collection. As Joe said, If you're not really interested in collecting the Sac dollars then you might want to put it up for auction or call around to some dealers and see what they will pay for it. Maybe they have a buyer lined up.

If I read you right, your ex spent some of your coins. Did she really need the 25 cents or so that badly? If she knew how much you felt about your irreplaceable coins then it's just as well she's your ex.

While the price of some rare coins is dropping, if you don't need the cash right now, I'd hold onto this coin as it will always be the key to the series and collectors like Joe would spend whatever it takes to obtain one. (If he could afford it). I'd love to own one but don't see it in my future either.

Don't forget to post some photos.

Bruce

 

Joe, I didn't know you have a Goodacre $. Did I miss your thread or what?

Bruce

 

here is a couple of pics as promised im not to good at this yet

 

JW,
I will share a little story with you and others and maybe it will apply here and answer your question above..... When I received my first coin ever graded back from NGC, it was a buffalo $50 gold and it graded MS70. I was so excited that I brought it in to my local coin club meeting to show some of the guys I am friends with. So as I was showing my buddy who was sitting next to me, a guy came up to me and said how much did I want for this coin? I told him it was not for sale and he persisted and asked me again and I persisted back and told him that this was staying in my collection. After the meeting, my buddy pulled me aside and gave me some advice. He told me that ALL my coins are for sale....always! He said that if I really didn't want to sell a coin, just put a ridiculous price on it and most people would not buy it.....but if someone did decide to buy it, then I would hopefully have made enough money to go out and buy another one. Personally, I think this is great advice and I have now used this to my advantage.

So when you asked whether or not you should use the PCGS price as a good starting ground.....I say sure...go ahead...You may find someone who is willing to drop the bucks.....and like Bruce said, if I did have the money....and boy do I wish I had it....I would buy that from you in a heartbeat. Treat it like a house....start high and negotiate down if you have to. You might just end up surprising yourself.
Good luck.

PS - as excited as you may be...don't rush into selling this. You are doing all the research and everything that needs to be done, but foolish mistakes happen to the best of us when you get too excited. You know what you have in hand. Its not going anywhere. The price isn't going to change to much in the next few months, so take your time selling this. I don't have too much experience wiht online auctions, but I use Teletrade more than Heritage or the others. Personally, when it comes to the coins I collect...which are IKES, SBAs, SACs and Prez dollars, Teletrade has more auctions than the others with these coins. I think Heritage has a better name. Its like PCGS vs. NGC...tit for tat.

I am rooting for you so any help that I can give, just pm me. Otherwise, we are all here to help you and root for you too! Good luck.

 

Yep, I had two. I posted a thread about this a while back....I think? :whistle: Heck, I can't remember what I had for lunch today! :headbang:

I just traded one of the Goodacres for a 1971 S/S IKE PCGS MS66. Only 13 graded MS66 none finer. I was stoked. But nothing like if I were to trade for a Cherrios dollar!

 

just put a ridiculous price on it and most people would not buy it.....but if someone did decide to buy it, then I would hopefully have made enough money to go out and buy another one. Personally, I think this is great advice and I have now used this to my advantage.


this is what ive been telling the person to whom it is consigned to at the moment, instead of working like an auction where you start low and work up go backwards start high and it leaves you room to go down to a price you want, he agrees with this as well.
thanks for the help and the great story i will use this advice and will post better pics when i can, right now the coin is in philly at the coin show and today was the first time i actually got to see the back of the coin and not because its mine but this thing is beautiful and shinier than i remembered and from some of the others i have seen on auction sites this one looks better

 

You are either really teasing me about this coin or you are trying to sell the heck out of it to me.....either way I want it! Maybe some day.

 

no teasing on this and if it was a POS i would say so even if it is mine,i was just amazed at how it looked on both sides wish i knew why it didnt get an ms-68 grade, but im not going to push my luck and resubmit, an ms-67 is good for me :thumb:

 

If you don't want it list it for whatever you want to get out of it. you are pretty much in the controller seat and a collector wanting that coin will pay it even in this market.

Right now pcgs has it listed at 12,500 but that is the dealer pricing not retail.

i would put it up for auction asking the highest amount possible. there is no reason not to. either someone wants it or not.

if it sells then you get a ton of money.

i really wish i had known those were out in 2000 i would have bought more cheerio boxes not that i like ceral.