What Your Budget Buys - $75 Edition

"Thanks, @Hispanicus! I'm intending a whole series of separate threads covering different budget ranges. These are all very nice examples of their type and would be appropriate in some of those subsequent threads - I hope you'll be able to post them again when we get to those threads ."

Uh-Oh @zumbly, looks like I jumped the gun and should have read the OP more carefully. In response to your message, I will most certainly sit tight for the next round of budget category.

Cheers

 

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No worries... those are great coins; I'm sure we'll all be happy to see them again!

 

OMG ! Karen verified that it did indeed sell for $35,000. She had no further information.

 

If I recall correctly, this one of Vabalathus was right around $75. I generally pay between $50 and $100 for coins and pick them out from auctions. I've noticed vcoins and forum ancient coins have many examples in this price range as well. But sometimes you pay a premium when you buy the coins from fixed-price web sites.





My best overall value in my collection has been an antoninianus of Macrianus, fairly worn but from an uncleaned hoard where the average coin price was about $2.

 

Macrianus ants go for around $500 so this was kind of a steal.

 

Gah... I think it'll take me a few more days (years?) to believe it. If true, that coin would be $40K+ after fees. Here's a hypothetical question - if offered the choice, who here would choose to own that coin over 500 coins of the sort we've been showing in this thread?

 

No matter how highly scarce or rare, I can't imagine how I could ever convince myself it was even worth $350-$500, let alone $3,500 or GASP!! $35,000!!!

 

Alrighty then. Maybe the coin was sold in Italian lira for old times sake.

 

My theory: On occasion, Clio suffers from multiple personality disorder and bids against himself.

 

Maybe "The Sheikh" isn't really dead?

 

It's a cool coin but I'd take 500 assorted interesting provincials instead of just that one particular coin.

Lucky consignor! Wow.

 

35,000 Japanese Yen would be more realistic converted to $321 USD.

However, it is obvious that someone with "Moon Money" felt the coin's "Rarity" was worth that. WOW.

Agreed with @TIF : Lucky Consignor!

 

It only takes two Clios. I have no idea what his max bids look like because I've never successfully outbid him but I tried to go to 5x estimate for an interesting(and ugly) extremely rare RR type once and I lost to him and we were the only two bidders. If I could have afforded to pay more, I absolutely would have but I doubt it would have mattered. From conversations with other collectors and dealers who have met this bidder I have a feeling his maximum was 20x estimate or more and could have been 100x if he really wanted the coin.

 

When there is one of something and two people that want it, we expect a high result. When both of those people happen to be extremely rich and really do not care we get this sort of thing. If the buyer decides to sell the coin because he lost interest in coins or his company stock tanked, the coin could resell for what it was worth as estimated by the auction house. It would be interesting to know what the bids were. We know the second was a bit under $35000 but we do not know what the high bid was and, more important to my way of seeing the matter, we don't know what the third bid was. If the coin is resold soon, that third bid could be the one that sets the level at which the previous second bidder (assuming he bids the same as he did last time) will have to pay. Years ago you often saw a line in auction rules that said 'Buy bids not accepted'. This prevented someone from telling the auction house that their bid was one advance over the high bid whatever it was. This would cause a problem when there were two bidders using that same buy order. Making a rule against it was obviously a good idea.

I understand this coin is one of a kind. I own several coins that I believe are similarly one of a kind. I was fantasizing which of them I would sell for $35,000 and which I would not. I would be a fool not to sell any of them at that level but I might regret selling a coin that defined my hobby and which I knew I could never replace even if it had cost me only $5. If selling it gave me such a sour feeling on the hobby that I no longer enjoyed my other coins or even my life, hat would be a really bad sale to make. If the only thing these coins, this hobby and your identity mean to you is their cash value, I doubt you will last long in the hobby. If you made a few hundred million last year, paying $35,000 for a coin that will bring you more enjoyment than a $350,000 car would (or if you already bought the car last week), maybe the purchase makes sense after all. We might ask if $35,000 would make your life enough better or worse to let it dictate our actions one way or the other. I hope the winner enjoys the coin. I wonder if he has removed the fake patina?

 

No. That isn't happening anytime soon. As long as his company stays at the top he will have nearly unlimited resources. Of course, even Enron fell, so it it possible that a trillionaire might be knocked down to a billionaire. There is light at the end of the tunnel. He is largely bored, has pretty much every coin ever minted.

Honestly, it would be more interesting to find out if there really was an underbidder.

 

Overpaid? Probably, but not for the coin--for the buyer's commission, currency exchange fee, Paypal fee and shipping. Total was $77.13 after everything.


Diadumenian, Caesar AD 217-218
Roman provincial Æ 16.5 mm, 4.63 g, 11:00
Syria: Seleucis and Pieria, Antioch ad Orontem
Obv: ΚΑΙ Μ Ο ΔΙA ΑΝΤΩΝΙΝΟC CЄ, bare-headed and cuirassed bust right Rev: Large SC, Δ/Є above and beneath; all within laurel wreath interrupted by star above
Refs: SGI 3017; BMC 20. 201,408; SNG Cop. 235; McAlee 745a.

 

'Overpaid?' is always a matter of opinion. I have two similar coins but yours is in better condition. None of the three have good surfaces. Mine were $30 from a dealer in the early 1990's that I now feel was overpriced for most coins I got from his nice lists He is no longer in business as far as I know.. I now regret that purchase. The second was $6 from a Baltimore show dealer 15 years ago. I have received $6 worth of enjoyment from owning that one so I do not regret buying it. I believe that none of the three would show a profit were we to offer them for sale to our friends here on CT after we allow for the costs of commissions, PayPal etc. Demand for common Provincials in less than spectacular shape is not high. Of the three, IMHO, most overpaid was mine from the 1990's since I was paying in old time dollars and buying the worst of the three coins. I wanted a Diadumenian so I did something I would not do now. The left facer was $6 and, after all, a left facer so I feel less grief about that decision. Whether you overpaid or not depends on how you feel about the matter in a few years and how much enjoyment you get from the coin in the meanwhile.

 

The reason I "had to" have that Diadumenian was that it matched a Macrinus I already had (and which I paid considerably less for). The Macrinus is more typical for the issue in terms of centering and degree of preservation:

 

There are many coins I had to have for one reason or another. Your reasoning makes sense to me.

 

This is an interesting thread. Nowadays I never pay $75 for an ancient - I shoot for $30 or less. Mostly silver denarii and antoninianii, with occasional Greeks, Byzantine, etc. my collection is a bit scruffy at that price level, but thanks to eBay, bargains are out there if you don't mind digging. I'll share some of these when the "bottom feeder" thread is posted.

But in the old days (pre-Internet) I did spend in the $75 range. In fact, exactly 30 years ago (August 1987), I paid exactly $75.00 for my first Greek coin, a drachm of Alexander the Great (so these are usually advertised; but my example is a posthumous issue - my attribution is based on trolling the Internet - corrections welcome, as always). Bought pre-Internet days, I got it from an illustrated mail order catalogue. In the early days I would buy ancients at that $75-$150 price level because I had to - $30 denarii and drachmae were, as I recall, rarely available or when they were they were in lousy (even by my low standards) condition. When cheap, decent material did come up, it sold out immediately (in those days you phoned the dealer to hold a coin, then mailed the check). My favorite dealer was Bill McDaniels out of New York (anybody remember him?). Very nice man, lots of lower-priced material, but he sold out fast. Nice thing with Bill was he'd send a substitute if he was sold out (with full money back return policy) - his substitutes were always just fine with me (and often better than what I'd originally paid for). But his catalogues only came out 4 or so times a year. As for the other dealers, most of the stuff was out of my price range back then (like Vcoins offerings are today). Dealers are in business and business demands that they know the worth of their merchandise, so pricing in those days (and on fixed price lists now) was full-bore retail in my experience.

So what's my drachm worth today? Was my $75 spent in August 1987 a good purchase? As far as enormously common Alexander drachmae go, it has a nice style and a very pleasant tone (that tone has, FYI, remained nice for 30 years, despite my poor storage for many years (PVC flips - I just didn't know any better!)). But it is hardly a pristine specimen and the Lampsakos mint examples quite common. I might get $102.50 for it on eBay if I'm lucky.



Macedonia Kingdom Drachm
Antigonus I Monophthalmus
(c. 320-306 B.C.)
Lampsakos Mint
Head of Herakles in lion skin / AΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΥ, Zeus std. left on throne, eagle & sceptre. Controls: obv. forepart Pegasos left; rev. AI below throne. Price 1385; S-6731. (4.22 grams / 17 mm). ex-Argos Num. Aug. 1987 $75.00

Mostly what I sought and purchased in the pre-Internet days were Roman Republic silver. I purchased these from time to time, when I could afford it, in the $75.00 range, sight unseen, from dealer catalogues without illustrations (the drachma above is a rare illustrated exception to this). Looking over these coins today, I'm still pretty happy with the purchases, but I was paying full retail back then, and it seems the prices haven't budged much, if you include 20 years of pricing massacres on eBay (and ignore all those ludicrously high "buy it now" auctions).

Here are a couple of RR denarii I bought before the Internet (1989-1992) in the $75 range (note I made a purchase from Paraguay - material was very hard to find back in those days - I was very excited when a coin catalogue - foreign or domestic - showed up in the mail):



Roman Republic Quinarius
Publius Vettius Sabinus (99 B.C.) Laureate head of Jupiter right control letter left (X) / Victory r. crowning trophy P•SABIN between, control letter (X?) right, Q in exergue Crawford 331/1; Vettia 1; Sydenham 587 (1.77 grams / 15 mm). July 1989 $85.00 disc.

Roman Republic Denarius
M. Plaetorius M.f. Cestianus (67 B.C.)
CESTIANVS turreted Cybele forepart of lion, globe beneath / M•PLAETORIVS•AED •CVR•EX•S•C curule chair, poppy head with one leaf. Cr409/2; Syd 808; Plaetoria 3. NumismaticaInd. (Paraguay) 1990 or 1991 $70.00

Roman Republic Denarius
L. Cassius Longinus (63 B.C.) Veiled and diademed head of Vesta left, cup, control letter "I" (?) before / Togate citizen std. left w. ballot inscribed "V" & voting box, LONGIN•III•V behind. RSC Cassia 10, RCVM 364, RRC 413/1 Schinke Sep. 1992 $79.00

These are admittedly nicer than the cheapies I have picked up on eBay over the past few years. But I have more fun now. The range of my collection has expanded enormously even as the quality has declined. Some would disagree with this collecting strategy, but I have to say that one of the great pleasures I get from collecting is the hunt. I just love a bargain - not much "strategy" beyond this. The bargains lead me to new interests. I'm afraid this emphasis on bargains also puts me in the Bottom Feeder's Club (sign me up - so long as the club dues are very, very low).

Great post, zumbley. I'm looking forward to the next one in a lower price range...