What to do with spotty proofs

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Clint, May 9, 2012.

  1. Clint

    Clint Member

    I've picked up some silver proof sets in which the half, quarter and/or dime have spotted toning near the edges. I thought the price was right, since I picked them up close to spot, and got a few pretty nickels and pennies to boot. But now I don't know what to do with them, since they really aren't anything to look at, in the current packaging. Some are in the original flat-pack, but most are in aftermarket hard sandwich holders with plastic screws (like Capital acrylic ones...may be them!)

    For starters, I wonder if the holder didn't contribute to the spotty toning, since they are consistent in appearance. Some are getting hazy. Next, I wonder what can be done to preserve/conserve those pieces, whether acetone and/or new packaging, just keep/sell 'em as junk, or what...what would you do?
     
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  3. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Post some pics of them Clint. What to do varies with what exactly is going on with the coins. But there are some things you can do.
     
  4. Clint

    Clint Member

    Let's see...nice variety of hazing, spots, goo, and otherwise yukiness you wouldn't normally expect in a proof, no? Do you think these holders may have contributed to the damage? What do I do now?
     

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  5. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    I'm interested in the answer and BTW - those '63s to me don't look proof.
     
  6. Kirkuleez

    Kirkuleez 80 proof

    The only one that looks proof is the 64 set. I've wondered the same thing though. Aside from sending proofs off to NCS, I don't know of a way to avoid damage to the extremely delicate fields. I tend to leave them alone unless the coin is worth the cost of conservation.
     
  7. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    From what I can see in the pics the coins look pretty normal to me. The '57s, I believe came from a Mint Set, and that type of toning is normal. There's nothing you can about it except to use a coin dip (acid) to remove it. And unless you have considerable experience dipping coins, it is not recommended that you try that.

    The '63s and the '64s have haze, also normal, or commonly found on sets from the era. But the haze is easier to deal with. You can buy a product called MS70, dip the coins in that, and it will remove most if not all of the haze. But do not dip the cents in MS70 as they will turn purple or blue in color. MS70 contains no acid, but it is a detergent based cleaner.

    A few words of warning - I neither advocate nor speak against its use, but there are many who consider the use of products like MS70 to be coin doctoring. I am merely informing you of a product that will do what you want done. Also, there is no guarantee that the haze, or possibly even worse, will not return in time. What happens after the use of MS70 has a great deal to do with proper rinsing and neutralization, followed by proper storage of the coins.

    All of that said, the sets you have pictured are quite common and easily replaced at little cost if you were to sell the sets you have and seek new ones that you find pleasing as they are. That may well be your best route.
     
  8. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    So your sure they are all proofs?
     
  9. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Not sure if you're asking me or not Ruben, but no, I do not think they are. As I said, I think the '57s are from a Mint Set.
     
  10. Clint

    Clint Member

    Exciting to realize over and over so much that I do not know...indeed I pulled them back out, and the '57 half isn't a proof, however the penny and nickel are. I've often thought of picking up some MS-70; sounds like now's the time. I assume from your recommendation, acetone will do no good. On your slabbed or mint sealed coins, if you see hazing or milk spots, would you crack 'em out to try to conserve them right away? I suppose it doesn't get better...
     
  11. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    don't waste money on an MS or PF 70

    69s are great, more than great...they are 70's waiting for TPG mistake as 70s are 69s awaiting a TPG mistake.

    Here another thing. You buy an MS70 and drop the slab - Oh well. MS68!
     
  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Ruben, the MS70 he's talking about is a coin cleaner.
     
  13. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Nope.

    No I would not. With slabbed coins, if you are unhappy with them then sell them and buy another that you are happy with.

    With original Proof Sets or Mint Sets the sets are usually worth as an original set than they are if you remove the coins from the mint packaging. So they are best left alone. And again, if you are unhappy with them, then look for replacement sets. Once you find them, sell the sets you have.

    But there is a difference when the sets are in Capital Plastic holders such as the ones you pictured. Those sets are not original and you can open them and remove the coins and then put them back if you wish. Or, you can remove the coins you don't like and replace them with examples you do like. Or, you can try the MS70.

    But since you have no experience with using MS70, I would suggest looking for replacement coins. Otherwise you stand the risk of messing up the coins you have.
     
  14. Clint

    Clint Member

    Well, since the aftermarket set proofs are only worth spot anyhow, why not try it out?
    I've read MS-70 may introduce yellowing...do you think that's only if it is not thoroughly rinsed/neutralized?
    Would using MS70 result in a definitively better result than E-Z-Est?
    Also, the reviews I've read indicate MS-70 has changed its formula, and is not as good as formerly. Any truth to that?
     
  15. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    I've never seen it introduce yellowing. Is it possible that it has ? Sure. But it's also possible that the yellowing was caused by the person was trying to rinse off the coin and not caused by the MS70 at all.

    Definitely better ? Probably not. But here's the deal, E-Z-Est is without a doubt dangerous to use. If you do not know what you are doing and do not have extensive experience with E-Z-Est, you could easily ruin the coin. There is little to no danger using MS70.

    I have no idea. Could be true or not true at all.

    Also Clint, you have to understand that my answers and comments are specific to the coins that you have asked about in this thread. My answers could very well be quite different if you were talking about other coins.

    For example, that '57 Mint Set you've got there, MS70 will do nothing to help those coins. Those coins have well established toning, MS70 does nothing to toning.

    The other coins have haze and a few spots. MS70 works great on haze, and on some light spots.
     
  16. Clint

    Clint Member

    Cool, I'll pick up a bottle. Thanks so much for your expertise and willingness to help!
     
  17. Stang1968

    Stang1968 Member

    GDJMSP, do you think the haze comes from the cellopacks that these coins were originally shipped in? I'm sure it has to do with improper storage as well, but I wonder if the film was a contributing factor. I have a 1957 proof set where all the coins have haze except the nickel and cent, and the cent has a carbon spot (probably from a mint worker!).
     
  18. silverfool

    silverfool Active Member

    I think the haze comes from the environment the coins are in after removal from the mint cello. I have a proof set that I stored in basement where all the silver coins got that haze on the edges after a couple years. I put them in a capital holder at the same time as some others stored elsewhere and 5years later no haze on the others. I kinda knew the basement wasn't the place to store coins.
     
  19. areich

    areich America*s Darling

    good advice here
     
  20. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Not at all. That's because I've seen haze on Proofs from all date ranges, modern ranges anyway. Coins that came in the hard plastic cases had haze more often than those that came in the pliofilm.

    I have long thought that haze is nothing more than the very beginning stages of toning. I have seen coins that had haze on them, in time develop into very attractively toned coins. They don't always, sometimes they just get plain ugly. But then that's how it is with toning.

    It is also possible, maybe even likely, that haze is caused or related to the washing that the planchets go through before being struck. And if you think about that makes a certain amount of sense. Thousands of planchets go through the washing process all at the same time. So it seems logical to me that some of them may not get as thoroughly rinsed as the rest. And perhaps it is these that later develop the haze. That thinking is somewhat reinforced by the fact that not all Proofs do develop haze, only some of them do.
     
  21. mrbrklyn

    mrbrklyn New Member

    I think it is a residue left over from the washing of the polished blanks
     
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