What Percentage Markup For CAC?

Above what bid? greysheet? or ??

 

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I can understand paying 2-3% over grey for a nice coin. IMO, anything above 5% I will be looking for a crack out TPG coin or 1 point higher on a raw coin.

 

By who's standards....CAC now that's a laugh......
Drink the Kool ade..... as a fool and his money shall soon part.

 

I don't understand your reply. Are you seriously questioning whether CAC serves as a market maker?

 

YES! CAC is a gimmick. A worthless sticker if you can't look at a coin be it raw or graded and see what is going on then you're in the wrong hobby . I don't need to pay someone to tell me what a coin is worth, or its grade. Opinions are like advice ,yes I may post a coin here or ask a dealer friend what they think...however no matter what my mind has already been made up.
Stickers are just another ploy for someone or 3rd party to weasel in to a market to try and get a part of the business .
So what are we to do have CAC give an OK to NGC grade? Next we will have DAD give an ok to both NGC and CAC, and so on til we hit ZAZ! If you want to drink the Kool ade knock yourself out....as for this collector it's hog wash!
And I use Hog Wash as I don't want to be gig ed here for saying what I really mean.

 

Your criticism says nothing about CAC as a market maker. A market maker is someone who makes a market in a certain area or their own product. In this case, CAC unquestionably bids on CAC coins. This is clearly fact, and am shocked that someone would dispute that portion. It strikes me that you do not truly understand the role of CAC. In my opinion, I believe it helps provide stability to that part of the market (i.e. for CACed coins) by knowing that the coins are more liquid and can be sold with a simple phone call to CAC. You claim to disagree with CAC's role as a market maker, but your criticisms seem to address other issues (like unexpected effects in the secondary market).

Now, I have heard a couple of people complain that CAC only offers a marginal amount above bid, but I have heard many more collectors say the opposite. Based on my personal experiences, CAC has always been incredibly fair to me giving more that I could sell coins for myself even to collectors in a buy, sell, trade post on forums. When purchasing CAC coins at Heritage Auctions that I hated (MS66 Barber dime and MS62 CC Dime), CAC made me whole. And recently had a $1100 offer on a coin that I have been trying to sell for $1000 for over a year now once I submitted it to them. That is a pretty useful marketing tool for the $12.50 I pay to have the pieces stickered. Your mileage may vary, but as always, I think a wise collector will use all of the marketing tools available to him to his advantage when it comes time to sell.

Edited: And to clarify the relevance of my post, it is meant to suggest that the market making function of CAC increases the liquidity of CAC coins and thus at least partially affects the prices paid for them. Also, as stated before, it is not clear to me that the premium is usually tied to the STICKER rather than the COIN. I would argue that in many cases CACed coins sell for more because they tend to be nicer than the average coin (but not always). In some cases, the sticker premium may be possible to determine, but in others, it is difficult to discern whether there is any at all.

 

To me that is a sign of someone of someone who bought the sticker and not the coin. Not saying the coin is not nice. And I don't mind someone who does not know how to grade purchasing CAC graded coin. In my mind I keep thinking if you look and study enough of them you can get choice coins with or without the sticker - and maybe skip a premium.

I would be more interested in why you got two coins CAC graded off heritage that you hated. What was wrong with them?

 

AFAIK...The bluesheet sight unseen bids are for CAC coins only.

 

I largely ignore CAC coins at dealers because I just assume the price will be inflated. I can already see if I agree with the grade or not by looking at the coin. The sticker isn't worth anything to me. Plus, I've seen CAC stickers that block a part of the label text and I would imagine they make it harder to polish the slab before photographing the coin.

 

It isn't an issue of me buying plastic and stickers and not the coin, as I feel that I am quite competent with silver, gold, and nickel coinage, and my rate of crossovers and CAC green stickers is very high.

For the pieces in question, I noticed them at the last minute, and did not have time to have someone view the coins in hand. So I relied on the Heritage photos and made an offer that I felt was fair. One of the coins looked to have rub that did not show in the images and I found unacceptable for the mint state grade. The other, the MS66 Barber Dime was not as colorful as the auction house photos led me to believe. In this instance, yes, CAC can be a useful screening tool since they have seen it in hand. This is not to say that I wouldn't buy a CAC coin as I often buy coins that aren't stickered. And if you reread my post, you will see that I have submitted non-stickered coins and submitted them to CAC to increase liquidity when it comes time to sell.

And the portion of my post that you quoted was a coin that I bought from Heritage without a sticker, and when I could not get the price I wanted, I submitted it to CAC and CAC offered me more than I was asking for it before it stickered.

 

CAC bids are listed separately.

 

LOL so they bid on their coins to over inflate the prices . ....sounds like price fixing to me. ***Makes note to self market maker is the same as price fixing .***

 

CAC places bids on CAC approved coins that they don't own. CAC isn't conspiring with any other party to artificially inflate prices. It simply buys coins that it likes (stickered pieces). There is nothing illegal or immoral to what they are doing. The market gets to decide the acceptability of it, and the market has answered quite loudly.

 

My philosophy has been to buy quality coins with great eye appeal, not quality holders with EBAY coins in them. I am willing to pay more and sometimes way more for outstanding coins with that knockout look. I love NGC Star coins. Great coins now are eye candy forever if encapsulated and stored properly. Buy the coins you want from a specialist and be willing to pay a premium. I'm a CAC collector member and all but one coin I have sent in so far have been verified by CAC. Piece of mind I guess.

 

8-25%

 

Page 2 and someone actually answers the OP with an answer to the question they asked. It's funny how pretty much every thread about CAC ends up becoming an argument on which side of the fence people are on about CAC.

By the way, the number I'm familiar with is about 15% premium on average. Here's a link to a study that was done on the subject. No matter if you think CAC is a big joke, or you think they are the cat's meow, numbers are numbers and they do sell for more money on average.

The reader's digest version
http://www.coinweek.com/education/c...sive-market-study-reveals-cac-price-premiums/

The whole enchilada
http://www.coinweek.com/CAC_Market_Study_Report_July_2012.pdf

 

I am starting to think a CAC'd coin doesn't matter. I've had several dealers in my area tell me they don't mean a thing and don't factor it in at all when buying. But they sure do when selling! Double standard rides again!

 

My LCS is a CAC dealer and won't send any of his coins to them and only will for me if I request it. He quit using them when "he found" out from a source close to JA that JA was just using CAC to find high-end coins to buy and sell to his clients. I have had mixed reviews with what I have sent to be stickered also. I got a few back that CT members disagreed with, and JA passed on one that was an easy upgrade. Too unpredictable.

 

The value of a CAC Sticker really depends on the coin that has the sticker. If a common date MS60 Morgan has CAC then the value doesn't change. However, if you CAC a rarer coin in a high grade, then a CAC sticker may raise its price by a bit. The value also depends if it is a green CAC or gold CAC sticker. If a rare coin has a gold CAC sticker then the value for the coin goes up a lot, because gold CAC sticker are very rare. A gold sticker means that CAC believes it has been under graded a least 1 point. Gold CAC stickers on certain coins can up the value significantly.