What is the value of TPG (Third Party Grader) certification?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by bernard55, Nov 3, 2021.

  1. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    Consider doing it as a survey.
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  3. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Thank you. Every now and then my posts are decipherable. It is rare, but.....
  4. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    charley, post: "...The questions presented do not stem from your or my position. The questions are based on a for profit premise, and are skewed and are based on making a market. If a person is both a buyer and seller, and states their answers to the profit based questions would be the same, I call baloney, as it would defy human nature and would be limited to the answers provided by Mother Teresa, only."


    :vomit: :wacky: Why complicate a very simple group of questions that APPLY TO ANYONE
    (D E A L E R, I N V E S T O R, and C O L L E C T O R spelled out for simplicity) SUBMITTING SOMETHING to a TPGS.
  5. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    That solves nothing. The answers would be less useful.

    "Who did you vote for"?

    "Ummmm, (desperately trying to remember who won and who I said was going to win before the question)...lightbulb to avoid being nailed turns on...the one who won"!!!
  6. bruthajoe

    bruthajoe Still Recovering

    I would like to contribute as a new "enthusiast", but only as a consumer.

    Question 1: It's my (this is you) opinion based on the transactions I've done that on average certification increases the retail value of a coin.

    1. none of the above. it's about cash flow and certified coins are easier to sell

    Question 2: TPG certification includes authentication, grading, valuation, registration (in their database), and encapsulation. Which of these is the most valuable to you or are they all required to achieve the answer you gave to question 1?
    1. Authentication / with grading.

    2. Other? (please explain)... It's by default to have your coin encapsulated after making an acceptable grade and I think Trueview is a requirement if you ever want to admire or share your piece. The worst things about slabs are that it screens the coin.

    Question 3: What does the suspected retail value of a coin need to be to submit for certification?

    1. $100-$249

    2. it depends (please explain)... Education or personal experience.

    Question 4: Do you buy TPG certified coins that you think are under graded, break them out and resubmit them in the hope of achieving a higher grade? If so, how big does the value difference need to be between the current grade and your proposed grade? For example, 1809 Capped Bust 50 cent piece currently graded 62 (PCGS value = $5000 https://www.pcgs.com/coinfacts/coin/1809-50c/6092) but you think you can break it out and get a TPG to grade it as a 63 (PCGS value = $10000)
    1. I don't do this, yet.

    Question 5: What coin type (US gold, Colonials, Foreign, Bullion, US-non gold etc..) benefits the most in terms of value from certification? What coin types benefit the least?
    Answer: I do not have the experience to answer confidently but I would sensibly think that the most counterfeited and least populated coins would benefit "the most".

    Question 6: What other reasons will you pay a TPG for certification (other than price appreciation and authentication)? Example: The auction service I use only takes certified coins.
    Answer: Because the members here at Cointalk would recommend it.

    Question 7: Not you of course but what is your opinion of what others are doing (in general) if a coin comes back as ‘Details’. Do they break the coin out and sell it raw?

    1. Not willing to answer the question – but I’m sure it happens…

    Question 8: On the TPG submittal form where it asks what you believe the value of the coin to be… do you:

    1. Put a higher value - but, (refer to choice 4)
    2. It doesn't matter
    please explain... They will not be persuaded by the opinion of the submitter and are probably compiling feedback data or for insurance purposes.

    Question 9: What TPG certification (in your opinion based on your business) offers you the most upside value?
    1. PCGS

    This was fun.
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  7. bernard55

    bernard55 Active Member

    that's too bad... i'm from the tech startup world and used to the transparency on discord channels about the interplay between companies and market realities. I'm also a coin collector and have always been fascinated with the interplay between the TPGs and the dealers/auction houses. Just trying to uncover what is known.. but maybe not discussed... understanding such things would help the community.
    Thank you for the thoughtful response. This is VERY helpful.
    bruthajoe likes this.
  8. bruthajoe

    bruthajoe Still Recovering

    NP. I feel like I should "thank you". I have a few hobbies and my favorite ones are "open source". That's why I like it here. I think community base is the future.
    bernard55 likes this.
  9. bernard55

    bernard55 Active Member

    I started out trying that but could not figure out how to have more than 1 question in the survey. Is that possible? If so, I'll figure it out.
  10. Lehigh96

    Lehigh96 Toning Enthusiast

    1. 7, TPG certification doesn't increase value, it increases liquidity
    2. 5, For series that experience counterfeits or problem coins I would say 1
    3. 5, This is an EV calculation. If I can make more money by submitting the coin, then it doesn't matter that the value is under $100. Jefferson War Nickels are a good example. If they are raw, most people won't pay more than $20 so if I have a coin that I know will grade MS67, I will almost always make more money by submitting the coin even though the total value is still less than $100.
    4. Yes, 1, again this is an EV calculation.
    5. I specialize in Jefferson Nickels so that would be my answer.
    6. The certification number provides a level of organization that makes selling them much easier. Trying to keep track of hundreds of raw coins, many with the same date/mm is very difficult, even when using a good organizational system. Also, the slab provides a level of protection that allows for easy handling of the coin.
    7. This one is tough because the answer is that it depends. Sometimes I send a coin in and I missed the problem, but once I get the coin back in the details slab, I find the problem and agree with the assigned grade. Other times, the TPGs will assign a ridiculous details grade for a wide assortment of reasons that I don't agree with at all. In fact, I have resubmitted many of these coins, only to have them come back in problem free holders, so when I get back a coin with what I think is a "phantom" details grade, I will crack it and resubmit or sell it raw.
    8. 2, if the shipment gets lost, I want full compensation.
    9. 1, but I still submit most of my coins to NGC. Believe it or not, that is a very complicated question when it comes to Jefferson Nickels.
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  11. bruthajoe

    bruthajoe Still Recovering

    Nostalgic dedication never was popular with the next generation. It's literally all about the money for some people. It actually makes the "hobby" worth while, for some (if not most). Otherwise there would be no game, no con, no winners, no losers. What a boring hobby it would be. I choose to do it for me. I like watching the waves form and crash on the sands of time.
  12. bernard55

    bernard55 Active Member

    Thank you for the thoughtful response. This is very helpful.
  13. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    For sure ancients, some world markets, to a significant degree medals and tokens. I've had buyers refuse a medal for no reason other than because it was slabbed and they were afraid to damage it cracking it out.
    Insider likes this.
  14. bruthajoe

    bruthajoe Still Recovering

    No one answers the surveys anyway.
  15. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Oh please yourself . . . why didn't you answer the questions? Is your time too valuable?
  16. bruthajoe

    bruthajoe Still Recovering

    haha! let's be civilized people. Continue....
  17. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    A market in this context is all commerce pertaining to a logical grouping of collectibles, which includes buyers and sellers, marketplaces, laws and regulations, etc.
  18. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    It really is though. Without profit the new products dont get created, there are no dealers or auction houses that help collectors find what they're looking for etc. I agree as far as collecting its not based on profit, but in terms of the hobby itself without that profit many things we take for granted as standard would disappear
    wxcoin and Inspector43 like this.
  19. Inspector43

    Inspector43 Celebrating 75 Years Active Collecting Supporter

    Kind of depends upon perspective. If your interests are in what is out there (in circulation) new stuff doesn't matter. But, it is one great big arena with many unique participants. I am one little person who is not at all interested in profit. But, I want the hobby to live.
    wxcoin likes this.
  20. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    Even if you ignore the modern stuff entirely the profit creates avenues for collectors. Coin shows wouldnt exist if they didn't make money, nor would any auction house or dealer etc. With all those things gone where would someone be able to find what they're looking for besides random luck in their change?

    The word profit isn't a dirty word, nor is it something that a collector needs to focus on. I would even argue that collecting is much more enjoyable if you ignore the profit aspect and just get things you like/make you happy. That said profit is a necessary part of the cycle in order for collectors to have access to material which is what drives the health of the hobby overall
    wxcoin likes this.
  21. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    I think the only thing that really endangers this hobby, or any other, is unfair profit.
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