What is the purpose of CAC?

In the spirit of this thread, that is hogwash. You deliver your opinions on this and every other subject with a dogmatic narcissism that the readers believe you are an expert. Additionally, you are the head moderator with the most posts in forum history. If you want an example, how about the thread about college degrees in which you responded that based on taking some entrance exams that your intellect was so great that you "could have a couple of of degrees for the asking"

Do you have a college degree?

You seem to think that this conversation is simply a matter of grading standards, and that simply isn't true. The entire issue at play here is credibility. You make the ridiculous claim that the TPGs intentionally lowered grading standards without any proof whatsoever. Do you even understand what a double edged sword that would be? You claim they did it in order to increase submissions to make their customers happy. How happy would their customers who hold graded coins be when they see the value of their coins plummeting due to rising populations?

The apparent loosening of standards that everyone sees is the result of expanded market grading principles like roll friction and eye appeal in combination with the inherent subjectivity in grading. If you want and example, here you go.




This 1924 SLQ resided in an AU58 holder, but I was convinced that the coin was not circulated and that the apparent wear on the leg was the result of roll friction and that the coin deserved an uncirculated grade and was hoping for MS64 upon resubmission.



The coin came back in a disappointing MS62 holder but that does not change the reason why this coin upgraded. You would have people believe that the TPG's simply told their graders, "hey guys, our customers are tired of all these AU coins, so from now on AU55=AU58 and AU58=MS60-MS62" The real reason for the gradeflation in this case is that the original graders felt the friction on the leg was wear. But I knew that the majority of TPG graders would view that friction as roll friction and grade the coin as mint state. That inherent subjectivity in the grading process combined with the potential increase in price for the upgrade is the reason for the higher grade, not an intentional loosening of grading standards.

Furthermore, the TPGs make their money off grading moderns and world coins, not resubmissions of classic coins. And CAC can't lower their standards to drive submissions, there whole existence is based on the premise of separating the wheat from the chaff. The model is to get the high end numismatic community to buy into the idea that you need to the CAC approval to protect your investment, thereby creating their own market for CAC coins. If you don't think they have done this, then just take a look at Legend Numismatics website and tell me how many coins they have for sale that are not CAC certified.

You are the first one to tell people not to grade coins using photos. You also have told this forum repeatedly that you haven't purchased or sold coins in over a decade. If this supposed lowering of grading standards happened in 2007, how would you even know, you stopped buying coins by then. What did you do, just go to coin shows and look at slabbed coins to ensure that your theory was correct?

As someone who has actively bought and sold coins as well as submitted coins for grading to the TPGs, I can tell you that I have not seen this supposed shift in grading standards that you refer to all the time. Gradeflation is real but it is the result of the inherent subjectivity in grading in combination with an expansion of market grading principles.

 

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Oh wow, this thread has become a perfect example of the term "kafkaesque"

 

Sooooo I think my question was answered everyone. Now let’s all hide from this monster I have birthed!

 

How about the Ed Wood seal of approval?

 

I think you can only get a gold sticker if the CAC experts feel the coin is ripe for an upgrade if resubmitted. I believe they issue very few gold stickers. Like it or not, CAC stickered coins tend to bring more than their non CAC counterparts.

 

Common belief is that at minimum it's something they would sticker at the next grade up. They are very rare in their stickering percentage

 

If the TPGs and CAC are the last word how come so many countifiets get by them. Expensive redundancy! My opinion of course.What if all the coin hobbiest learned how to evaluate coins properly, how popular would the TPGs and CAC be, and also there would be less post on this site with the heading "Worth Grading"?

 

What counterfeits would that be that CAC has stickered? Since there are "so many" of them it should be very easy for you to provide us with numerous examples and back up your accusation.

Far to many people say whatever they want in CAC threads throwing around baseless accusations because they don't know what they're talking about.

 

So dealers can charge more for the same coins that they sold before to knowledgeable buyers...

 

That statement is not backed by any facts I am aware of. Perhaps you have some data you could share with the rest of us.

 

Ah what has happened to the "hobby"? A hobby is a regular activity that is done for enjoyment, typically during one's leisure time. Coin collecting is the collecting of coins or other forms of minted legal tender.
Coins of interest to collectors often include those that circulated for only a brief time, coins with mint errors and especially beautiful or historically significant pieces. Coin collecting can be differentiated from numismatics, in that the latter is the systematic study of currency. Coin collecting can become a competitive activity, as prompted by the recent emergence of PCGS (Professional Coin Grading Service) and NGC (Numismatic Guarantee Corporation) Registry Sets. Registry Sets are private collections of coins verified for ownership and quality by numismatic grading services. The grading services assess collections, seal the coins in clear plastic holders, then register and publish the results. This can lead to very high prices as dedicated collectors compete for the very best specimens of, for example, each date and mint mark combination.

 

What’s happened to the hobby?

I can’t speak for others, but I’m having a helluva good time collecting.

 

Why get your coins graded?
If you don't know what you have.I would steer clear of collecting coins.

 

It's not that simple. You are telling half of the collectors out there to quit.

 

I'm using the grading services to help calibrate my grading skills.
I think they're an effective educational tool.

 

I hope you take some time to think about what you've done here:

 

I know of no other country whose natives don`t know their own coinage apart from the US, it is bizarre.
Coin production and collecting is relatively new in the US compared to the rest of the world.
US coins have hardly changed in denomination and size apart from changes in metals and commemoratives.

Because of this some US collectors try to find minute differences from say one Dime to another and then get someone else to confirm it under the guise of grading and pay for it to be slabbed.

US coins are no better than coins from the rest of the world, they are probably worse due to sloppy production and lack of attention to detail by the mint , this is why there are so many errors.

Then you have the hyped up prices of coins and even more hyped up prices of those that are stuck in plastic.

The Chinese who are the world leaders in producing counterfeit coinage know many US collectors lack the knowledge of their own coinage and that is why the US coin market is targeted.

The defenders of the slabbers and CAC are more than likely the gullible who have paid into this scam and are trying to justify their outlay.

 

Has nothing to do with not knowing coins.

People with your attitude are almost always shocked and not in a good way by how their coins grade if they were to send them in.

Try again. They do it because the US is the BIGGEST market. It's not just US coins they do it for either and it hasn't been for quite some time. Coins from everywhere are faked.

Overall your last post is one of the more redicilous things that has been said in this thread and that's saying a lot. Watch your head, it's gotta be pretty close to the ceiling on your high horse.

It's extremely obvious when someone is just spouting off without knowledge of a subject. Someone with knowledge would know that aside from making numismatics more accessible to new collectors the emergence of a MASSIVE online market is one of the biggest drivers of grading.

If you don't like grading don't use it. But posts like your last one help out no one and just look like you are only posting to boost your own ego.

 

This entire post is hot garbage!

 

Excuse me?

I'm an American and for your information I've been collecting Buffalo Nickels since before you were born. I can assure you that I know what I'm writing about.

Here is one of my favorites:

I went to complain to an official at the US Mint but he was unavailable:

That's it, I'm not eating at Panda Express today.

If I were to put your post into a slab it would read: "G8, Details" - and that would be SEGs on a generous day.