What is the purpose of CAC?

Not everyone that can afford to buy nice coins know how to grade. CAC is an insurance policy for them. I have seen coins with CAC beans that I wouldn't buy, and some that wouldn't bean that I would love to have. If you get a gold sticker on a MS66 coin, CAC is saying the coin will at least upgrade one grade. The TPGs do make mistakes, and it is very seldom that you see a coin under graded. Usually a coin is in the slab with the highest grade it can achieve. Personally, I would rather have a 65 with a green bean, than a 66.

 

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Gold means that CAC believes the coin is way better than the assigned grade. It doesn’t mean the TPG would always agree and upgrade the coin when you submit it for reconsideration.

I can’t tell you if I would prefer the MS66+Gold CAC or the MS67 Morgan. Of course, I’d try to buy the “better” coin, e.g. the one with more eye-appeal or nicer toning.

 

Now you’re a bit too hard to the average collector. I am working on a US type set, so I only need a single coin of each type. I believe to be pretty good with silver, but I can’t tell if an old copper coin was properly graded or not. If you’re saying “don’t buy a $5000 coin if you don’t know what you’re doing” then I’ll have to agree.

 

First off, CAC isn't really a big deal to me, I've only bought one coin that exceeded a thousand dollars.
But it seems to me that when big bucks are at stake, with big price jumps between grades, another pair of eyes is a good thing.
Coins really grade on a continuum, not just 11 MS grades, (plus +'s) . Take any two coins, practically always one is at least slightly superior.
I buy coins in a lot of different series, plus world, and I just can't be a good grader on them all. So when I do look at a more expensive coin, I understand the CAC appeal.

 

It is a common misconception that CAC is an altruistic company out to protect the collector. This has been repeated over and over, and promulgated by so-called high end collectors (who have been deluded by the promises of these sirens). CAC is another company like any other - out to make a profit, and they'll make money on you however they can. Their means might just be a little less transparent than others.

CAC's place is to view coins and sticker the ones they like. CAC then makes an offer on these coins in the wholesale marketplace - they have already seen them, so they know they like them and will offer a slight premium for them. CAC somehow appears to avoid the conflict-of-interest problem because a lot of people don't realize they are also buyers/sellers of CAC coins.

That's sorta the whole problem, isn't it?

CAC is not perfect. NGC is not percfect. PCGS is not perfect. I am not perfect. That's my whole point!

Depends on where you look, and how good you are.

I agree with you, micrbaun - if you cant' tell a coin is accurately graded, then don't buy it. However, for many collectors, I believe this is an excuse to rely on the TPG or FPG (CAC) - the type collector is held to the highest standards, because they desire a coin of each type. The best type collectors should be the best collectors - they can grade every series and every type, and select the best of every type. Saying, "Yeah, I bought this 2-cent piece but I don't really know much about them so I can't really grade it" is absolutely useless. You, as a type collector, should have researched the type to buy the best quality out of the entire type. Otherwise, you are literally just buying any random piece to fill a whole in your set. What's the point of that? Do you want to fill your set with random crap just because you don't know anything about what you're buying, and you just want to fill your whole with whatever junk is available? If so, you're missing the entire point of so-called type collecting!

 

But the CAC beans are so pretty!

 

Also, the post you reference showed a 1793 Wreath Cent and an 1082/1 Half Eagle. These are both very expensive coins - if you can't grade for yourself and have to rely on at least 2 graders, 1 finalizer, and 1 Fourth Party authenticator to tell you that you are buying an accurately graded coin, why are you even bothering? Just buy bullion. These sorts of coins are meant for people who know what they are doing - and they are not something the so-called average collector can even dream of affording.

 

@physics-fan3.14

In no way did I intended to suggest they are, but I've a feeling you're well aware of this.

 

Of course, I'm perfectly well aware. However, to the average collector, the marketing has been well-placed to make them think that the TPGs and FPGs (Fourth Party Graders - CAC) are there to help them out. The TPGs and FPGs are not there for you. They are there to make a profit off of you. Do not be deceived. Learn to grade for yourselves!

 

Just buy this grading book !! Only $39.99 plus s&h fees

 

edited

 

If one, who can't grade, is subject to the quandary of how to collect high grade coins, he needs the help of a third party grader. If that person is unable to access the grade of the third party grader, then he needs a set of second eyes, that being CAC. They validate the grade by the third party, but there is almost always a 'premium' associated with the 'bean'......Learn to grade and save some 'scratch'. Not to say that I don't have 'beans'.......I just got them at the right price.......

 

So then, following that logic, if you can't make it to an auction yourself, you shouldn't have someone else evaluate the coin and bid for you? If you don't know how an internal combustion engine works, you shouldn't buy and drive a car?

 

Without TPGs, the US coin market would be less than half of what it is today. Maybe 10% of collectors AND dealers are confident in their grading, and many dealers can only OVER-grade.

 

We're of course completely in the realm of opinion here and all of these opinions have at least something compelling about them. Nonetheless, if you have the skill to grade at an expert level, which can take years of training, and have pretty good confidence that you can tell the difference between an MS66 and an MS67 in various types then, definitely, TPGs and stickers are a waste of time for such a person. I think that very few people ever reach that level, given both constraints of time and access to a wide variety of coins.

I agree that people should learn at least something about grading, but to expect the average collector to have the knowledge of a TPG grader is expecting way too much, in my opinion. I don't have loads of confidence in my own grading skills despite the decent amount of reading and studying that I've done on the subject. I can't wander around a coin show and say "ah! That's an MS64 but the dealer is selling it at an MS61 price!" I don't think I'll ever be able to do that. So should I just never buy a coin again? I've considered quitting many times, but with TPGs I can at least get a decent idea of the difference between an XF45 and an AU50.

I recently bought my first MS67 classic coin (a Mercury dime). From what I know and could tell, it certainly looked like an MS67 coin. What gave me an extra dose of confidence in the grade was the CAC sticker plastered onto the slab. It also gives me confidence that if I were ever to sell it, the buyer would have more assurance of the actual grade, and the fair price to pay, than simply my word.

Not only that, who doesn't want more experts looking at their coins? Even if you possess an equal knowledge of one of the TPG graders, wouldn't you also want their opinion, especially for a rare and expensive coin? In many cases, the extra $20 is well worth it, but in many cases it really isn't. For instance, why pay an extra $20 to get a CAC sticker on just about anything from the modern clad era worth less than $20? But for a $1,000, a $5,000 or a $10,000 coin? Even the extra grading fees for such coins are definitely worth it. The more experts that look at a coin (up to a point, of course), probably the better. If I ever pay really really really big money for a coin (I highly doubt that I ever will), I want a whole bevy of experts to have looked at it for authenticity and accurate grading.

But, of course, this is only my opinion. Regardless, I think the best answer to this thread's original question is "it depends."

 

CAC is just another opinion and many will pay for it. No question, they have became an important part of the hobby.

 

For a 2-page thread, this was an excellent discussion!

 

The only sticker worth having.

 

In 57 years of collecting, buying and selling coins I don`t know how I survived without the skills of American TPG`s and an even younger CAC.

Perhaps I should start a business called CAC II.

I can produce pink stickers confirming that CAC got the correct grade when confirming the TPG`s graded a coin correctly.

Then later I could open up CAC III using mauve stickers confirming CAC II got it right.

Then comes along CAC IV etc etc, all tools to help the coin collector eh

 

I think of CAC as the "arts" part and the TPG as the "science". TPG gives a technical grade, CAC deals with the eye appeal.