What is the difference in sales prices of these two coins?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by ddddd, Oct 3, 2021.

  1. Jim Dale

    Jim Dale Well-Known Member

    I don't have a strong opinion of the beanie. I think it is just a way to make money. Where do they get their income? Buyer? Seller? Someone's got to pay.
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  3. Vertigo

    Vertigo Did someone say bust?

    I've sold cac coins for up to 4x price guide value.
    baseball21 likes this.
  4. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    I don't think you're getting what I'm saying here. CAC is taking the toning into account when verifying that the grade of MS64 is correct. MS64 of a common date Morgan. That's not worth anything. Neither CAC nor PCGS are saying anything about the coin having monster toning that would command a significant premium. Since that is almost all the value of this coin, the CAC sticker is meaningless.
    ddddd and Morgandude11 like this.
  5. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    "MS64 of a common date Morgan. That's not worth anything"

    I've posted a closed auction of what's believed to be the most common MS64 CAC virtually untoned Morgan Dollar, believed to defy your multiple ludicrous STATEMENTS in this thread.

    The O.P. posted a logical query, if you don't have a supported answer, please limit your false STATEMENTS on what is believed to be a Nunismatic learning site, relative to others, where your posts may be commonplace/acceptable.

    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
  6. ddddd

    ddddd Member

    This is why I don't find the CAC sticker to be super useful on common date common grade toned Morgans. There are many MS 64 Morgans with neutral toning that have the green sticker and then there are MS 64 Morgans with monster toning that have the green sticker. CAC isn't differentiating between the two. They just say both are solid for the 64 grade (a "B" or better coin).

    Then you have the issue of market grading with toners (the color bumps up the technical grade). I still haven't seen a definitive answer as to whether or not CAC takes market grading into account. You would think that a technical 63 that got a color bump to a 64 is no longer an "A" or "B" 64 coin, but I'm not sure how CAC thinks. I have personally seen market graded Morgans get the sticker, so it seems they can be swayed to sticker a nicely toned coin that has been color bumped. Does that make things even more confusing? I'd say yes.
    Jaelus likes this.
  7. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    I don’t care about the color on the 1881-S Dollar. That’s my right as a collector. I am interested collecting coins for their history, not dealer and grading service games and pricing.

    If that makes me stupid or unacceptable, I am guilty.
  8. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    There’s still meaning to it though as they’re confirming the toning is fine which has value having two companies agree on that, but yea it’s not like the *
    Jaelus likes this.
  9. eddiespin

    eddiespin Fast Eddie

    Take the sticker off and it's a toss-up.
  10. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    We're talking about a $10,000+ sale on a coin where a common date goes for very little. The base price of the coin, even if it is a couple hundred with CAC is so little as to be irrelevant to the sale price.

    If you search for sold Morgans in PCGS and NGC MS64 holders on eBay for sales from this week only you'll see about 30 under $100 with the low being just over $60. When you take into account the cost of slabbing and the silver value (let's estimate about $40 combined) that's as I said - no real premium for this grade. Your CAC example was still selling extremely cheaply and it had a VAM worth noting - which makes sense since why else would you submit a common date MS64 Morgan to CAC?

    I'd say your example actually proves my point quite nicely. Thanks.
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
  11. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    I'm sorry, but here we go again, with you comparing my actual sale to an imaginary? $10,000+ dollar sale of a more scarce coin. Please post a link to your mentioned sale of that thread shown MS64 1881S Morgan after it sold for your stated value.

    You stated "MS64 of a common date Morgan. That's not worth anything". Numismatic Neophytes may take your infinitely differential STATEMENT literally. I've met some ignorant buyers when I offered rolls of uncirculated 1921 Morgans at $550, and they initially offered less than melt. They eventually paid my bargain price, with more than one offering to purchase whatever I had at that price, having paid/viewed the offered product.

    If you mean something different than your literal STATEMENTS, please post same, as I would have defered to a "That's relatively/virtually not worth anything"

    I respect your knowledge when presented properly.

    I've presented a link to prove my point, which you verified by your hearsay words of eBay $60 minimum sale of an un-CACed comp to my 1921 Morgan linked coin. Actual value divided by nothing you've stated (i.e. sixty/zero) is an infinite differential. I'm waiting for your post of the $10,000+ value 1881S Morgan coin you stated exists.

  12. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    This thread was posted by @ddddd and the example he gave he said had sold for $10,408. I'm literally discussing the example given in the first post of this thread... It is only your 1921 example that is not actually part of this discussion.

    In case you missed it, here is where he posted the final value, but next time, I encourage you to read the thread you are commenting in prior to posting.

    Also, saying something is not worth anything is a figure of speech that means it is very inexpensive. This is how language works and I'm assuming people posting on a coin forum generally understand without any difficulty whatsoever that a crown sized silver coin doesn't literally have a value of zero.

    While my example was about common date Morgans in general, for some additional credibility here are some recent sales specifically of MS64 1881-S Morgans at the price point I referred to:
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/234193746767 $72 PCGS MS64
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/363550204562 $61 ANACS MS64
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/164924976340 $65 PCGS MS64
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/294291056195 $68 PCGS MS64

    There are plenty of others that are Make an Offer sales where I can't see the final price, but where it's clear it would be around this ballpark price as well.

    Again, keep in mind the cost of the silver and slabbing/shipping fees are going to be around $40 combined, even assuming it is submitted as part of a larger order. Take into consideration seller fees, and the sellers of the above examples are getting a premium under $20 for the MS64 grade.

    My original point, which is still completely valid, is what value is there to CAC a coin that sells for such a low premium at MS64? Where is the value in paying for an independent 3rd party to confirm the grade on a coin with such a small premium for the grade, especially on a $10,000 coin where the value is entirely from the toning?
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
  13. imrich

    imrich Supporter! Supporter

    I quoted a post:
    Jaelus said:
    We're talking about a $10,000+ sale on a coin where a common date goes for very little. The base price of the coin, even if it is a couple hundred with CAC is so little as to be irrelevant to the sale price.

    Numismatic "Neophytes", I often meet, quote their understandings learned on "social sites" as this. Probably the majority of conversation here is unrelated to the site name. If one is searching for Numismatic related information, Chrome and others quote this as an authoritative Numismatic site.

    As a member of this Democracy, I understand your right to state hyperbole/exaggeration, and respect same. Others here respect my legal posts which have been positively entered into legal proceedings. Legal language often isn't understood? by lay-people in our society. I was just probably improperly pleading consideration for those less knowledgeable trying to learn about current Numismatics. I apologize!!.

    Enough Said!
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
    Jaelus likes this.
  14. Jaelus

    Jaelus The Hungarian Antiquarian Supporter

    Well said. I stand by my quote you have included in red, and when I read it it seems clear to me, however, I suppose "very little" is relative. For clarification when I say a coin "goes for very little" I'm referring to coins under $250. You'll note I also clarified in the following sentence that a base price of a couple hundred dollars would be "irrelevant".
  15. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    HUH, that one sold for 10,000+ ?
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