What I would most like to see is the return (from the US Mint) of

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So, six of one, a half dozen of the other.

 

This sounds like a rhetorical question, but in point of fact, people do this here all the time:

"You're a terrible person for not telling that seller that the coin was worth more than they were asking."

"You're a terrible person for accepting that much money for a coin that wasn't worth it."

On the face of it, this seems silly -- but there are apparently fuzzy boundaries among cherry-picking, effective marketing, taking advantage of uninformed buyers/sellers, and fraud.

I don't get terribly worked up about US Mint markups, but they're certainly a reasonable topic for discussion. I'd certainly be more likely to buy from the mint if the markups were lower, but then, I'm a cheapskate in general.

 

I'm not sure if they save everyone money. Doesn't the government business flood the market with silver bullion and limit the opportunity for private enterprises?

 

Yep! You win some and you lose some. All you can do is hope that you have more winners than losers.

Chris

 

After the national trauma of the murder of the president the congress authorized a coin bearing the slain presidents portrait. This act of congress made the coin a commemorative, the suddeness of the act made the coin a commemorative coin. A year later silver was taken out of the nations coinage and replaced with a cupronickel composition, except for the half dollar, this made the coins continued to be hoarded for their silver content, by the time the half dollar also was made of cupro nickel the habit of hoarding half dollars had been established. I also spend half dollars regularly, instead of dump banking them, and some of the comments lead me to believe people think that the half dollar still has silver content.

 

Might as well, as long as they’re investigating the IRS, all part of the Treasury Department, that is trained to extract money from you.

 

Wasn’t there a time when the mint was required to break even on numismatic products (back when there was only mint & proof sets)? That’s what I’d like to go back to – it’s fair. The fact that profits from collectors reduce the taxes required by all is of little value to me, as those reductions in taxes for all are paid for by a small number of collectors compared to all taxpayers.

You are correct, few have a right to criticize the profits of a business operating fairly, yet we all should criticize and do something about a business operating as a monopoly, as the mint does. Anti Trust Laws are supposed to be used to stop private monopolies from taking advantage of consumers, but probably don’t apply to government agencies who didn’t operate as a business when these laws were enacted.

As for collector profits on the secondary market – those have become few & far between, as the mint has learned to extract those profits upfront in their pricing. The 2013 West Point ASE Set, the most recent case in point - $45 dollars worth of silver turned into shiny disks at a cost of $145.

 

You're crazy. 2012 was a banner year for secondary market profits: 2012 Silver Proof Set, 2012 Proof Set, 2012-P Hawaii 5ozer, 2012-S El Yunque Roll, 2012-W SAE, and others!

 

The US Mint is far from a monopoly. Most every country on earth has a mint. There are untold numbers of private mints. You can buy from any of them.

 

Yeah? Like I said, few & far between, you won't see another year like that for awhile. And, most of those profits are because the mint either reneged on its advertised mintage limits or cut off sales earlier than its previous pattern, leaving many collectors out. Another monopoly abuse.

Edited: I wouldn't include the 2012 ASE set in that group either - not much of a profit, if any, after all is said and done. And, this issue raises all kinds of questions of abuse, with the way they reissued the 2012-s proof.

 

What does this have to do with the fact the US Mint is the only producer of US Coins? You're mixing apples & oranges - the mint is clearly a monopoly for US Coins, as anyone who tried to produce US Coins would go to prison. One could even conclude the US Mint is a monopoly of the worst kind, one operating with government sanction.

 

If the demand for halves ever materializes and the backlog is exhausted, I believe the mint would produce them for circulation again.

 

Well, I'm not going to agree with that. Back when there was only mint & proof sets, the mint complained and didn't want to produce these sets because they claimed the selling price didn't cover the cost to the public. At this time the mint did receive tax revenue to operate. The Clinton administration was the first to required some government agencies to act as businesses and produce a profit. I know, I worked for the Treasury Department at that time and believe me, the s**t hit the fan back then.

 

If you think the US Mint doesn't produce enough products that you can profit off, you can buy stuff from private mints and make a very high margin off them.
It's not exactly a monopoly. Sure, the US Mint is the only one that can produce US coins, but all mints have proprietary products.

The thing I don't like about it is how they completely dominate the bullion market. We could potentially have many more private mints making innovative products if the govt allowed free competition.

 

Yeah, I've just never collected anything but US Coins, as historically US Coin were the most profitable. I don't know today, aren't US Coins still 90% of the coin market? Another barrier for me to branch out from US Coins is I can't even afford to keep up with all the US Coins the mint produces these days.

 

You're right , they are a monopoly, for collector coins. It's a bit different though than the railroad or the oil monopolies in the late 18th-early 19th centuries. Collector coins aren't exactly a necessity, you don't have to buy them if you don't like the price. If enough collectors feel their products are overpriced and stop buying, the mint will have to rethink it's pricing. As of now that's not the case.

 

Very true, which is one reason their sales are shrinking, yet, hopefully for the mint, they’re using the necessary formulas to maximize their profit.

On the other hand, much of my objection is due to the fact that the mint is allowed to act as a monopoly with government sanction, which does directly affect me as a consumer of their products. Add to that concern, historically government agencies were created to serve the people, not profit from them. As was mentioned, I own a small part of that agency and would expect my own company to sell to me at cost. How would you like it if you knew that when the IRS showed up at the door, they had better make a profit off you? Not exactly the same as the mint scenario, yet on point considering my belief that a government agency should not be profiting from the people and all should pay (through taxes) who benefit from it.

 

So, other than non-usury pricing and Kennedy Half Dollars, aren't there other items you'd like to see return (from the US Mint)?

I could come up with a list.

For one, I'd like to see the return of 90% silver mint sets, where the silver content is more readily visible than the proofs - nothing quite like a fresh frosty unc silver coin. And yes, sold at cost.

One for the mint, thinking like a profit motivated agency, why not produce patterns of all their future mint products before settling on the design to use and then auction them off for the big bucks. I wouldn't be a bidder, but I'd love to watch the carnage.