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What effect will the UHR have on HR Saint Gaudens
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<p>[QUOTE="GoldFinger1969, post: 2109115, member: 73489"]Well, <b><span style="color: #0000ff">there are over 12,000 HR 1907s</span></b>, with coins costing 5-figures for low-60's MS. <b><span style="color: #00b359">Akers has it 32nd and 38th for overall and high-quality difficulty; 5,000 - 6,000 coins in Mint State.</span></b> So, there's basically DEMAND driving the price up here, not scarcity.</p><p><br /></p><p>Post-1928 Saints (where the total in Mint State is a few hundred at most) usually cost mid-5 figures or low-6's. I'm excluding a super-rarity like the 1927-D, but those coins have a fraction of the surviving mintage of the 1907 HR yet don't cost many multiples of 1907.</p><p><br /></p><p>But even a Proof with only 58 known coins (the 1913) looks to sell for about the same ballpark as the 1907 UHR, despite there being 200x as many of the latter available. Clearly, the price differential (whatever it is now for each grade) is not reflective of the supply. <b> It's the demand for the 1907.</b></p><p><br /></p><p>I would venture to guess that many coin collectors or just historians value the 1907 for Saint-Gaudens and aren't interested in collecting all the obscure dates. So lots of people chasing the 1907 but very few concerned with other years like the 1913 Proof.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Akers has a total of only 25-35, and I can see your 750% increase in price being current market (book shows about 250-350%).</p><p><br /></p><p>Clearly, a few serious collectors who want the best or one of the best for every year are driving up the condition rarity on that coin @ MS-65.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Well, we have the Langbord 10 and there are probably maybe up to a dozen others (from what I have read) that may be in the U.S./Europe but which nobody will admit to because they fear a knock on the door from the Secret Service.<img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie8" alt=":D" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p><b><span style="color: #0000ff">1933 ? We know the mintage -- 445,500 -- we just don't know how many got 'exchanged' out of the mint before FDRs edict went into effect.</span></b></p><p><br /></p><p>I never said the pricing of 1907 HRs was 'irrational' -- at least I hope I didn't. It's clearly a very available coin but there is heightened demand because it's the only HR in the series (barring the 1907 UHR @ 20-200x the cost). Again, I think that there are 3 coins that are the most famous Saints: the 1907 UHR, the 1907 HR, and the 1933. With the first and third impossible based on cost and/or supply, the 1907 becomes a pricey but within-reach for folks who want a High Relief coin.</p><p><br /></p><p>I'm sure there are non-coin collectors who just have 1 coin and it's a 1907 HR. Artsy-thing, I guess. Akers says it's the most beautiful REGULAR issue coin ever minted.</p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Oh yes, I am quite aware. And as many are put away, scarcity tends to increase over time.</p><p><br /></p><p>Right now I'm just selectively collecting favorites. No registry collecting or anything like that -- yet. <img src="styles/default/xenforo/clear.png" class="mceSmilieSprite mceSmilie8" alt=":D" unselectable="on" unselectable="on" /></p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>What is it about the 1908 Motto that you like so much ?[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="GoldFinger1969, post: 2109115, member: 73489"]Well, [B][COLOR=#0000ff]there are over 12,000 HR 1907s[/COLOR][/B], with coins costing 5-figures for low-60's MS. [B][COLOR=#00b359]Akers has it 32nd and 38th for overall and high-quality difficulty; 5,000 - 6,000 coins in Mint State.[/COLOR][/B] So, there's basically DEMAND driving the price up here, not scarcity. Post-1928 Saints (where the total in Mint State is a few hundred at most) usually cost mid-5 figures or low-6's. I'm excluding a super-rarity like the 1927-D, but those coins have a fraction of the surviving mintage of the 1907 HR yet don't cost many multiples of 1907. But even a Proof with only 58 known coins (the 1913) looks to sell for about the same ballpark as the 1907 UHR, despite there being 200x as many of the latter available. Clearly, the price differential (whatever it is now for each grade) is not reflective of the supply. [B] It's the demand for the 1907.[/B] I would venture to guess that many coin collectors or just historians value the 1907 for Saint-Gaudens and aren't interested in collecting all the obscure dates. So lots of people chasing the 1907 but very few concerned with other years like the 1913 Proof. Akers has a total of only 25-35, and I can see your 750% increase in price being current market (book shows about 250-350%). Clearly, a few serious collectors who want the best or one of the best for every year are driving up the condition rarity on that coin @ MS-65. Well, we have the Langbord 10 and there are probably maybe up to a dozen others (from what I have read) that may be in the U.S./Europe but which nobody will admit to because they fear a knock on the door from the Secret Service.:D [B][COLOR=#0000ff]1933 ? We know the mintage -- 445,500 -- we just don't know how many got 'exchanged' out of the mint before FDRs edict went into effect.[/COLOR][/B] I never said the pricing of 1907 HRs was 'irrational' -- at least I hope I didn't. It's clearly a very available coin but there is heightened demand because it's the only HR in the series (barring the 1907 UHR @ 20-200x the cost). Again, I think that there are 3 coins that are the most famous Saints: the 1907 UHR, the 1907 HR, and the 1933. With the first and third impossible based on cost and/or supply, the 1907 becomes a pricey but within-reach for folks who want a High Relief coin. I'm sure there are non-coin collectors who just have 1 coin and it's a 1907 HR. Artsy-thing, I guess. Akers says it's the most beautiful REGULAR issue coin ever minted. Oh yes, I am quite aware. And as many are put away, scarcity tends to increase over time. Right now I'm just selectively collecting favorites. No registry collecting or anything like that -- yet. :D What is it about the 1908 Motto that you like so much ?[/QUOTE]
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