What effect will the UHR have on HR Saint Gaudens

I believe you'll find the reported mintage for the 1907 High Relief St. Gaudens to be 11,250 total.

 

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Akers is showing 12,367.

 

I believe your source to be of greater accuracy than that of Krause Publications who has an established record of seeming unreliability.

Another source reports a mintage of approximately 12,000, which would generally support the records of your source.

Regardless, I believe, if you consider the unique design, duration of production, and the minimal mintage, the value pricing levels of the 1907 HR St. Gaudens is a relative bargain.

Although I will acquire a specimen of the new design, for several reasons, I wouldn't expect the coin to receive the acceptance realized by the 2009 UHR.

I wouldn't expect the new design to be of any challenge to the "Unique" awesome 1907 HR St. Gaudens.

JMHO

 

IMrich, even in low-60's MS...I believe a 1907 HR Saint will cost 5-figures. Maybe AU is below $10,000.

 

Since you profess knowledge of the St. Gaudens design, have you compared the relativity of this VERY unique coin, to others of the series (e.g. 1920S, 1921, 1927D, 1927S, any 1930s). LOL

I personally have a special appreciation for this coin relative to the comparably priced, higher mintage, lesser quality Morgan Dollars, 1921 Peace, and numerous other U.S. coins of touted similar value.

I have many of the comparably priced coins, and in my opinion, there's no comparison for design retention in comparable grades/pricing.

If you have the interest in comparison of "state of art" design, try to locate a comparably struck 1921 High Relief Peace Dollar. I have a 1921 "finest found" specimen, and in my opinion, theres no comparison in strike, detail, luster, general presentation, etc.. LOL

JMHO

 

Well, the relief is definitely different from those. The Saints you listed are either very rare or EXTREMELY-rare (i.e., 1927-D). So despite being 'plainer' and no different than a 1924 or 1927 or 1928 for the most part (except for strike, etc.), they probably cost alot more than the 1907 HR in similar graded condition.

Not really familiar with Peace Dollars but will check it out. Have you posted pics of your coin ?

 

My point is that even in the same series that you appear to appreciate, with the same basic design, these other dates having considerably greater stated mintage, and believed relatively poorer presentation, command greater premiums than the considered bargain value placed on the 1907 HR.

In the past I posted images as an exercise in this venue, but because of current software conflicts, only generate images for clients who have a sincere interest in a specific item. I can't do justice to coin imaging that Heritage allows viewers.

The 1921 HR Peace Dollar, I believe, because of the generally poor strike can only be appreciated when you have various coins of the same date in varying graded condition. I believe you might understand if you reviewed images generated in the same venue, of comparable grades for the 2 differing HR designs.

JMHO

 

There are simply many more of the 1907 HR (but NOT the 1907 UHR) than some of the rare mintages and condition rarities. That's why the price for the most part is less for the 1907's -- but go to MS-65/66/67 on the 1907's and the price jumps a ton.

 

[QUOTE="GoldFinger1969, post: 2101560, member: 73489"There are simply many more of the 1907 HR (but NOT the 1907 UHR) than some of the rare mintages and condition rarities. That's why the price for the most part is less for the 1907's -- but go to MS-65/66/67 on the 1907's and the price jumps a ton.[/QUOTE]

Will you please post your authoritative source for your statement "There are simply many more of the 1907 HR than some of the rare mintages and condition rarities"?
I've unsuccessfully searched for a reliable document which indicates/states the known remaining quantities of the coins I referenced for you to compare in the St. Gaudens series.

Does your source also include the remaining quantities of the 1909P St. Gaudens which might explain the 750% PCGS stated increase in value for that coin in MS65 grade condition relative to the MS63 grade? Talk about drastic increase in stated value.

I hope your source isn't that which indicated the remaining quantity of 1933 specimen, before appreciably others were
shown to exist after the ~$7000000 sale of the King Farouk specimen.

I believe that there isn't a credible source knowing the remaining mintages for coins in this series, and a rational reason for your stated irrational pricing of the available 1907 HR believed GEM in this series.

If you decide to collect "Mint State" coins in this series, you have some real surprises in your future. I spent decades acquiring the commonly known keys and semi-keys for this series, including an MS65 condition 1909P. I believe you'll find some of the coins listed as "common" are quite elusive.

I'll take all of the PCGS graded 1908 MOTTO MS62 St. Gaudens coins you can supply, at their listed retail value. I don't attend coin shows, but have "dealer" associates attending same, to locate certain coins which I'll trade for coins they desire. I have one who just returned from a major show with five PCGS incuse indians I desired. I'll trade for a 1911 "Mint State" St. Gaudens.

JMHO

 

Well, there are over 12,000 HR 1907s, with coins costing 5-figures for low-60's MS. Akers has it 32nd and 38th for overall and high-quality difficulty; 5,000 - 6,000 coins in Mint State. So, there's basically DEMAND driving the price up here, not scarcity.

Post-1928 Saints (where the total in Mint State is a few hundred at most) usually cost mid-5 figures or low-6's. I'm excluding a super-rarity like the 1927-D, but those coins have a fraction of the surviving mintage of the 1907 HR yet don't cost many multiples of 1907.

But even a Proof with only 58 known coins (the 1913) looks to sell for about the same ballpark as the 1907 UHR, despite there being 200x as many of the latter available. Clearly, the price differential (whatever it is now for each grade) is not reflective of the supply. It's the demand for the 1907.

I would venture to guess that many coin collectors or just historians value the 1907 for Saint-Gaudens and aren't interested in collecting all the obscure dates. So lots of people chasing the 1907 but very few concerned with other years like the 1913 Proof.

Akers has a total of only 25-35, and I can see your 750% increase in price being current market (book shows about 250-350%).

Clearly, a few serious collectors who want the best or one of the best for every year are driving up the condition rarity on that coin @ MS-65.

Well, we have the Langbord 10 and there are probably maybe up to a dozen others (from what I have read) that may be in the U.S./Europe but which nobody will admit to because they fear a knock on the door from the Secret Service.

1933 ? We know the mintage -- 445,500 -- we just don't know how many got 'exchanged' out of the mint before FDRs edict went into effect.

I never said the pricing of 1907 HRs was 'irrational' -- at least I hope I didn't. It's clearly a very available coin but there is heightened demand because it's the only HR in the series (barring the 1907 UHR @ 20-200x the cost). Again, I think that there are 3 coins that are the most famous Saints: the 1907 UHR, the 1907 HR, and the 1933. With the first and third impossible based on cost and/or supply, the 1907 becomes a pricey but within-reach for folks who want a High Relief coin.

I'm sure there are non-coin collectors who just have 1 coin and it's a 1907 HR. Artsy-thing, I guess. Akers says it's the most beautiful REGULAR issue coin ever minted.

Oh yes, I am quite aware. And as many are put away, scarcity tends to increase over time.

Right now I'm just selectively collecting favorites. No registry collecting or anything like that -- yet.

What is it about the 1908 Motto that you like so much ?