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<p>[QUOTE="dcarr, post: 1301006, member: 4781"]As the subject of this thread, perhaps I should weigh in here with some comments.</p><p><br /></p><p>There are two types of counterfeits:</p><p><br /></p><p>1)</p><p>The traditional definition of "counterfeit", in a currency sense, is an item that is manufactured to appear to be legal tender, and is passed as such. The counterfeiter makes a profit on the difference between the production cost and the face value.</p><p><br /></p><p>2)</p><p>An altered or doctored coin, if manipulated to look like a more-valuable item, is sometimes referred to as a "counterfeit". For example, somebody cuts away part of the "4" on a 1944-D Lincoln cent, and then attempts to sell it as a rare "1914-D" Lincoln cent. Although some people might call this bogus "1914-D" Lincoln cent a "counterfeit", it is in reality an "altered" coin, not a counterfeit.</p><p><br /></p><p>What I have been doing is not counterfeiting and it doesn't fit either definition above.</p><p><br /></p><p>If I take a legal-tender dollar coin, change some aspect of the design (without adding or removing any metal), and the result still looks like a dollar coin, this is not counterfeiting because there has been no change in the apparent face value. Note that I do not recommend anyone attempt to use any of my over-struck coins as legal tender (and why would they if the things cost more than the apparent face value to start with).</p><p><br /></p><p>I am not altering coins to resemble any item that actually exists. Like it or not, it is LEGAL to deface money. It is, in fact, legal to take a 1944-D cent, push some metal around on it, and turn it into what looks like a "1914-D" cent. But if you then tried to pass it off as a genuine 1914-D cent, while knowing that it wasn't, then that would be a crime (a crime of fraud, but not counterfeiting). My over-struck coins are genuine altered coins, with dates that do not exist. And, of course, I offer these items with full disclosure making it perfectly clear that they are modern over-strikes.</p><p><br /></p><p>So anyone making the public claim that I am "counterfeiting" should first consider the legal ramifications of making such charges against an individual or company.</p><p><br /></p><p>Another aspect of this is to consider who, if anyone, is harmed by this activity.</p><p>The US government is not harmed. When counterfeit money is introduced into circulation, the net effect is a dilution of the value of all existing currency. This harms the government, as well as everyone else. But what I do does not dilute the value of currency because for every dollar coin I alter, a legal-tender dollar coin is "consumed" in the process. But what about someone years from now paying a high price for one of these over-struck coins ? I don't think this hypothetical scenario will ever play out. Who is going to pay a high price for a coin that has a date that is known to be not a US Mint ptoduct ? Only a knowledgeable collector would, and they would know what they are getting. A novice is not going to pay a high premium for something they know nothing about. Anyone knowingly attempting fraud with one of these over-struck coins is the one and only person that would ultimately be at fault. And who is to say that these over-struck coins couldn't have a high value in the free market in the future ? (I make no such claims, however).</p><p><br /></p><p>And lastly, some here have lamented that original Morgan silver dollars are lost in the process. While this is basically true, the coins I use are common, of little collector interest, and are usually impaired in some way. I like to use cleaned, polished, worn, and/or damaged coins. Since I am knowledgeable about VAMS, I examine all coins before using them, and any scarcer dates, better VAMS, and/or higher-grade coins are saved. Recently, I was given the opportunity to look through about 1,000 silver dollars to pick out coins to use for over-striking, as well as any coins I'd like to save. Here is a thread at VAMworld where I show the better VAMS that I bought and saved from that lot of 1,000 coins: <a href="http://www.vamworld.com/message/view/home/44846918" target="_blank" class="externalLink ProxyLink" data-proxy-href="http://www.vamworld.com/message/view/home/44846918" rel="nofollow">http://www.vamworld.com/message/view/home/44846918</a>[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="dcarr, post: 1301006, member: 4781"]As the subject of this thread, perhaps I should weigh in here with some comments. There are two types of counterfeits: 1) The traditional definition of "counterfeit", in a currency sense, is an item that is manufactured to appear to be legal tender, and is passed as such. The counterfeiter makes a profit on the difference between the production cost and the face value. 2) An altered or doctored coin, if manipulated to look like a more-valuable item, is sometimes referred to as a "counterfeit". For example, somebody cuts away part of the "4" on a 1944-D Lincoln cent, and then attempts to sell it as a rare "1914-D" Lincoln cent. Although some people might call this bogus "1914-D" Lincoln cent a "counterfeit", it is in reality an "altered" coin, not a counterfeit. What I have been doing is not counterfeiting and it doesn't fit either definition above. If I take a legal-tender dollar coin, change some aspect of the design (without adding or removing any metal), and the result still looks like a dollar coin, this is not counterfeiting because there has been no change in the apparent face value. Note that I do not recommend anyone attempt to use any of my over-struck coins as legal tender (and why would they if the things cost more than the apparent face value to start with). I am not altering coins to resemble any item that actually exists. Like it or not, it is LEGAL to deface money. It is, in fact, legal to take a 1944-D cent, push some metal around on it, and turn it into what looks like a "1914-D" cent. But if you then tried to pass it off as a genuine 1914-D cent, while knowing that it wasn't, then that would be a crime (a crime of fraud, but not counterfeiting). My over-struck coins are genuine altered coins, with dates that do not exist. And, of course, I offer these items with full disclosure making it perfectly clear that they are modern over-strikes. So anyone making the public claim that I am "counterfeiting" should first consider the legal ramifications of making such charges against an individual or company. Another aspect of this is to consider who, if anyone, is harmed by this activity. The US government is not harmed. When counterfeit money is introduced into circulation, the net effect is a dilution of the value of all existing currency. This harms the government, as well as everyone else. But what I do does not dilute the value of currency because for every dollar coin I alter, a legal-tender dollar coin is "consumed" in the process. But what about someone years from now paying a high price for one of these over-struck coins ? I don't think this hypothetical scenario will ever play out. Who is going to pay a high price for a coin that has a date that is known to be not a US Mint ptoduct ? Only a knowledgeable collector would, and they would know what they are getting. A novice is not going to pay a high premium for something they know nothing about. Anyone knowingly attempting fraud with one of these over-struck coins is the one and only person that would ultimately be at fault. And who is to say that these over-struck coins couldn't have a high value in the free market in the future ? (I make no such claims, however). And lastly, some here have lamented that original Morgan silver dollars are lost in the process. While this is basically true, the coins I use are common, of little collector interest, and are usually impaired in some way. I like to use cleaned, polished, worn, and/or damaged coins. Since I am knowledgeable about VAMS, I examine all coins before using them, and any scarcer dates, better VAMS, and/or higher-grade coins are saved. Recently, I was given the opportunity to look through about 1,000 silver dollars to pick out coins to use for over-striking, as well as any coins I'd like to save. Here is a thread at VAMworld where I show the better VAMS that I bought and saved from that lot of 1,000 coins: [URL="http://www.vamworld.com/message/view/home/44846918"]http://www.vamworld.com/message/view/home/44846918[/URL][/QUOTE]
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