Log in or Sign up
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
World Coins
>
What coin am I? (Description: in Moscow,Russia c.1836)
>
Reply to Thread
Message:
<p>[QUOTE="Juan Blanco, post: 1624319, member: 41665"]Pretty sure you mean "3 Roubles" like the photo above. (There was no "4 Rouble" coin. Typo?) </p><p><br /></p><p><br /></p><p>Yes, in theory. </p><p>But no, you're mistaken: <i>there was an agio (premium) on Silver </i>in this period, so 4 or 3.6 assignats were equivalent to 1 Silver Rouble (the analogy would be US Greenbacks in Gold in the lat 1860s.) People wanted Silver, not Paper.</p><p><br /></p><p>I've found no records where "remote parts" refused Silver; in fact, Spanish/Mexican piastres traded extensively in what's now Ukraine, at agio NOT discount. At the time of the Paper Rouble recall/revaluation in 1840, the Dollar was worth 1.33 руб. in Russian Silver.</p><p><br /></p><p>The concern for foreign travelers was - at any arbitrary or capricious forex - their specie would not be <i>fairly exchanged</i> rather than "refused." The Russian coin in question was purportedly refused. </p><p>As for Silver disappearing, that was Gresham's Law. </p><p><br /></p><p><i>The City of the Czar: Or, A Visit to St. Petersburg</i>, in the Winter on 1829-30..., Vol. 1 ; Thomas Raikes (1838) : "No money is seen in circulation here, all is paper; blue, red, and white notes, torn and dirty, represent five, ten, and twenty-five roubles, &c. ; they are the only medium of change, which never varies: an attempt to circulate foreign gold coin would be attended with great loss, as you would never obtain its real value. There exists a law to prevent this paper-money from being carried out of the country, and what may appear paradoxical, another to confiscate it if afterwards attempted to be introduced again. The rouble which, in former times, was worth from thirty-six to forty pence English, is now only worth ten-pence in its paper shape. We have seen the time in England when a one-pound note was not intrinsically worth more than fourteen shillings; but here the depreciation, owing to the enormous issues* of paper, is far more serious, the silver rouble being equal to three and a-half or four roubles of the latter.This paper-money has one advantage, that it never varies in value, but the original silver coin fluctuates daily, and is, therefore, almost entirely driven out of circulation in the common purposes of barter.There is little appearance in the shops, and few things are to be bought here, whichmay not be found better and cheaper in otherplaces. Cachemire shawls are very dear,their furs generally exorbitantant, a mere collar of beaver-skin for a great coat will cost two hundred roubles (= £8.33), but the curious in tea may be amply gratified; the greatest variety is brought here overland from China, and is sold at prices unknown with us; the finer sorts will cost from forty, fifty (40-50 руб. = £1.67 - 2.08) to one hundred roubles (= £4.17) per pound (Фунт= 409.52 g), and are a real curiosity." </p><p><br /></p><p>fwiw, English tea sold wholesale in England at a premium 66% - 195% higher than the Hong Kong price in June 1830. A London Tea Dealer quoted a high wholesale price of £0.25/lb. avd., St. Petersburg (overland trade) cost was @ £0.60/lb., ~ twice as high as London's (calculated for Parliament). According to Augustus Bozzi Granville, the best Russian tea sold in St. Petersburg mid-1828 @ 9 руб./lb. avd (£0.376/lb) considerably less than Parliament's reported price. Also, a beaver-collar in Peking cost ~ 260 руб. (200-320 руб.) in 1821; in St. Petersburg (again, 1831) 150-200 руб. I have no idea was this article would have sold for in New York or London in 1830.[/QUOTE]</p><p><br /></p>
[QUOTE="Juan Blanco, post: 1624319, member: 41665"]Pretty sure you mean "3 Roubles" like the photo above. (There was no "4 Rouble" coin. Typo?) Yes, in theory. But no, you're mistaken: [I]there was an agio (premium) on Silver [/I]in this period, so 4 or 3.6 assignats were equivalent to 1 Silver Rouble (the analogy would be US Greenbacks in Gold in the lat 1860s.) People wanted Silver, not Paper. I've found no records where "remote parts" refused Silver; in fact, Spanish/Mexican piastres traded extensively in what's now Ukraine, at agio NOT discount. At the time of the Paper Rouble recall/revaluation in 1840, the Dollar was worth 1.33 руб. in Russian Silver. The concern for foreign travelers was - at any arbitrary or capricious forex - their specie would not be [I]fairly exchanged[/I] rather than "refused." The Russian coin in question was purportedly refused. As for Silver disappearing, that was Gresham's Law. [I]The City of the Czar: Or, A Visit to St. Petersburg[/I], in the Winter on 1829-30..., Vol. 1 ; Thomas Raikes (1838) : "No money is seen in circulation here, all is paper; blue, red, and white notes, torn and dirty, represent five, ten, and twenty-five roubles, &c. ; they are the only medium of change, which never varies: an attempt to circulate foreign gold coin would be attended with great loss, as you would never obtain its real value. There exists a law to prevent this paper-money from being carried out of the country, and what may appear paradoxical, another to confiscate it if afterwards attempted to be introduced again. The rouble which, in former times, was worth from thirty-six to forty pence English, is now only worth ten-pence in its paper shape. We have seen the time in England when a one-pound note was not intrinsically worth more than fourteen shillings; but here the depreciation, owing to the enormous issues* of paper, is far more serious, the silver rouble being equal to three and a-half or four roubles of the latter.This paper-money has one advantage, that it never varies in value, but the original silver coin fluctuates daily, and is, therefore, almost entirely driven out of circulation in the common purposes of barter.There is little appearance in the shops, and few things are to be bought here, whichmay not be found better and cheaper in otherplaces. Cachemire shawls are very dear,their furs generally exorbitantant, a mere collar of beaver-skin for a great coat will cost two hundred roubles (= £8.33), but the curious in tea may be amply gratified; the greatest variety is brought here overland from China, and is sold at prices unknown with us; the finer sorts will cost from forty, fifty (40-50 руб. = £1.67 - 2.08) to one hundred roubles (= £4.17) per pound (Фунт= 409.52 g), and are a real curiosity." fwiw, English tea sold wholesale in England at a premium 66% - 195% higher than the Hong Kong price in June 1830. A London Tea Dealer quoted a high wholesale price of £0.25/lb. avd., St. Petersburg (overland trade) cost was @ £0.60/lb., ~ twice as high as London's (calculated for Parliament). According to Augustus Bozzi Granville, the best Russian tea sold in St. Petersburg mid-1828 @ 9 руб./lb. avd (£0.376/lb) considerably less than Parliament's reported price. Also, a beaver-collar in Peking cost ~ 260 руб. (200-320 руб.) in 1821; in St. Petersburg (again, 1831) 150-200 руб. I have no idea was this article would have sold for in New York or London in 1830.[/QUOTE]
Your name or email address:
Do you already have an account?
No, create an account now.
Yes, my password is:
Forgot your password?
Stay logged in
Coin Talk
Home
Forums
>
Coin Forums
>
World Coins
>
What coin am I? (Description: in Moscow,Russia c.1836)
>
Home
Home
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Activity
Recent Posts
Forums
Forums
Quick Links
Search Forums
Recent Posts
Competitions
Competitions
Quick Links
Competition Index
Rules, Terms & Conditions
Gallery
Gallery
Quick Links
Search Media
New Media
Showcase
Showcase
Quick Links
Search Items
Most Active Members
New Items
Directory
Directory
Quick Links
Directory Home
New Listings
Members
Members
Quick Links
Notable Members
Current Visitors
Recent Activity
New Profile Posts
Sponsors
Menu
Search
Search titles only
Posted by Member:
Separate names with a comma.
Newer Than:
Search this thread only
Search this forum only
Display results as threads
Useful Searches
Recent Posts
More...