What a whizzed & retoned bronze coin looks like

I just spotted this on ebay--it presents a textbook case of whizzing/retoning on a bronze coin. The clues are pretty strong on this one--the wire edge on the "U" and raised edges everywhere on the design and legends. An IHC is never struck this way. In fact, someone bore down so hard as to dig furrows into the portrait.



The color is clearly indicative of chemical toning--a toned "brown" IHC is going to be a deeper brown with an absence of iridescent coloration. And there is no mint luster, because it's been completely stripped away.

 

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I'm not ready to called it whizzed from those images. It was messed with in some way but I don't know how.

 

Thanks Kurt

 

I agree

 

Metal was moved around by mechanical means--I would be willing to bet that a rotary wire brush did it. The sharply raised edges on the legends and on design details--where none should be present on an unmolested MS coin--are diagnostic of whizzing. This is not a diagnosis I invented--I simply found a good example of what coin experts have already discussed in detail--for the benefit of collectors here. Below is another example on an IHC showing how metal gets pushed around by a rotary metal brush, leaving raised rims--arrows.

 

Just put the stain on a rag and finish your product ...
Last time I work with Auto sandpaper, it went up to 2,500 grit .

ultra fine
.
..

 

Here's a whizzed 1924D.

 

Thanks for posting those pics! The eroded surfaces look similar to the IHCs I posted above, and that's clearly a bad attempt at re-toning.

 

That's interesting. I wonder why that happens.

 

I think what we are seeing on the 1892 are mostly hot spots from the direction of the lighting used to take the image. I'm seeing this on the insides of some of the lettering in areas that a whizzed coin would not show. Are there any other images?
As a normal, raised edges show on the outside edges of the lettering. It looks like something was used to smooth the face and parts of the fields. Probably a felt bob at high speed or that could also be the effects of lighting. I could be wrong but this coin has a different look from other whizzed coins I have handled. One thing is for sure, the ribbon was tooled and the color of the coin is off.

 

The white areas, right?

 

Yes.

 

I don't see a whizzed coin personally. Unless it was so light as to be almost unperceivable. I do agree she took a little chemical bath some time ago though. Is that a wicked clash I see I'm front of her eye

 

This photo is quite diagnostic enough--I don't need to follow through more on my end. Since your remarks don't explain what is shown, I'll let you research the topic for yourself on your own time--so you're better informed. Suffice to say--if you see these raised ridges on the legends and other details--it wasn't struck that way--that's all. Avoid such coins--they have been whizzed and lost considerable value.

 

I agree with what you are saying but not on this coin based on the one image. I posted what I base my opinion on above. I feel I'm very well informed on this topic. Been doing this for too many years to think that only one thing could cause this look in an image. For the record. I have handled over a hundred whizzed coins over the years. I'm not new at this.

Not a nice thing to say.

 

Perhaps my comment was abrupt, but it was to the point. If you can't see the diagnostics of whizzing in that picture--then you might do well to familiarize yourself--than post to my thread the diagnostics can't be seen and confuse other readers by acting like you know. Since people often buy from photographs, they need to know where to look. In this case, the diagnostics on the coin are easy to compare with an MS example.

And the thread was meant to inform--not to banter about what people can or can't see. I have plenty of experience myself in buying/selling IHCs and attributing die varieties from photographs.

 

I agree with Kurt there, simply shoving information in someone's face and pointing it out on their thread is more rude then anything in my opinion... There's nothing wrong with letting the OP or anyone in particular research things at their call.

Their sure are some pin prick-nit picky people on here recently.... hope this trend doesn't continue long.....

 

Look at the pictures in this thread, same white lines in the pictures of this 1971 cent: https://www.cointalk.com/threads/1971-penny.270479/.

 

I gave you other possible reasons for what we are seeing in this one image and I did that without questioning your experience. My post were to inform as well but I have an open mind as to what is possible. Lighting will play tricks on your eyes.

Look at all the lighting hot spots on this coin. They are everywhere. You can't whiz the inside vertical edges of a letter and draw material to the top and above the letter. It's not possible. You can get that effect with a different type of tooling but not with whizzing. Too many of the hot spots we are seeing are perfectly straight lines. You don't get that with whizzing. You would need a computer to control the brush to that degree. One slight movement would blow the line and the lighting would loose the sharp edge.

Now lets look at the fields. Look at the clash marks in front of the eye. A whizzing would have knocked off the sharp edges. Those sharp edges are still there and the lighting picked up on them and they show as hot spots. Staying with the fields. When you whiz the fields of a coin, some material is dropped off just before the edges of the lettering or other devices. You don't see that in the image of the 1892. You do see the shadowing or the material in the images of the 1884 and the 1924 that were also posted. I can agree that those two coins were whizzed based on the images. Show me different images of any of these coins and my opinion may change 180.

KurtS
I understand that you are well versed on IHCs. I respect your opinion. You just need a better example of whizzing if you wish to teach this topic.
I never act like I know something if I don't. I know it or I don't post an opinion as fact. If I'm wrong, I'll say so. In my fifty plus years in this hobby I have learned a bit. In the past forty, I grew up with the best coin doctors there have ever been. Believe me when I say that I know the topic. I try not to bring this up because people want me to teach the art. I can't do that but I feel good just teaching folks how to spot it, just like you. There are many more on the forums that feel the same as I do. They know it but only wish to share how to spot it. I could go on but I'm going to stop with this long winded reply.