Wells Fargo GOLD your opinion on this one.

Well, so for what it's worth, those Wells Fargo coins have an odd way to look up the cert verification.
Thank you for contacting PCGS Customer Service.
The Wells Fargo coins have a special certificate number issued to them and the way to verify them on our PCGS cert verification site is as follows:
The certificate #'s on the holder should look something like this… W1103881F
You need to change the second "1" to "0" and drop the W and F. So you would enter 1003881. This should pull up the correct info.
https://www.pcgs.com/cert/01004375
And that does pull up the right coin.

 

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How this coin got a 66 eludes me !

 

According some dealers, that’s why CAC came into existence. Some of the slipperiest grading has been on common date $10 Indian and $20 St. Gaudens gold pieces. The reason is that the market for them is to bullion buyer, non collectors.

 

I sure don’t mean to hijack @mpcusa thread but I had never heard of Wells Fargo gold before and did some Google studying. As I understand this was a hoard that had been untouched in Wells Fargo bags since the early 20th century. My question is this. Are all the Wells Fargo hoard coins 1908 No Motto?

 

I have been hunting down the ideal specimen, and havent seen one w. motto
for the 1908, heres a different label same NM label.

 

I will tell you this after looking at about 50 plus examples they all seem to have that uneven GOLD appearance...

 

Heritage just had an auction where a WF $20 in MS68 blew through $17000, where I stopped watching it.
I think those alien eyes result from reflection off the cheeks of a non-mashed face.
I don’t know, provenance adds a bit, and 66’s are going for mid 3k regularly in auction now. I don’t really see $4k as unrealistic price-wise. I would want to see it in hand though
Still, nice specimen.

 

When you get to MS-68, the registry mentality kicks in. Wealthy people will spend a fortune to be the top dog in a registry. I was #1 on them NGC registry for the gold type set one year. It was a fluke, and it will never happen again. It was the year I bought a 1796 No Stars Quarter Eagle, and it caught the other big fish by surprise.

I have learned that registries are like a dog chasing its tail, except that it’s a lot more expensive.

 

One of the coins that I've tried/have collected over the last 70 years is the 08P/D with motto coin, which I believe you'll find to be very scarce at the listed value prices.

If you check eBay listings/advanced for the coin in any grade, you'll find known being sold in the past, or "for sale"!

JMHO

 

I believe this MS67 specimen rife with wear, bag rub/marks will commonly support your statement pertaining to believed improper grading:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2041929722...0q/ZD7eqAld1J6QPtpYRtiQsc=|tkp:Bk9SR6jy1MbHYQ

JMHO

 

That's down right chicanery (probably meant to fool the balloon flyers).

 

Just looking for a

Just looking for a an attractive example
I found a 65 I liked however looking for
an OGH with Wells Fargo Nevada GOLD
logo on it.

 

Yup....the number of registry, gold coin, and type collectors is about 25,000...give-or-take. Above that, premiums to bullion are miniscule and you need to sell them to the investor collectors as bullion substitutes.

If you can jack the grade a bit, get some numismatic premium, it's found money.

 

Randy, I believe I have a Hoard Thread somewhere here that goes into depth on the Wells Fargo Hoard.

Suffice to say it refers to where the coins where kept while their sale was being negotiated, NOT where they were from 1917-1996 when they were stored. The original bags were replaced in the mid-1960's; before that, they sat largely untouched after being used in some international trade settlements.

Rumors abound that it was just a bank's normal gold holdings....a stash of a military general or corrupt government bureaucrat...even a post-Soviet Russian sale...and possibly much much larger involving other coins. Nobody knows, Ron Gillio (the buyer) knows more but hasn't talked to date.

The 1908 NM was pretty close to a common coin before the WF Hoard, not quite equal to the 1924 or 1927 in Gem MS or below...but close to it. The WF Hoard was generally of higher quality than the existing pre-WF Hoard 1908 NM's.

Because of the high-quality of the 1908 WF NM's, no other Saints are as cheap in Gem or Superb Gem quality. MS-67's are 30-40% less for this coin than the next cheapest.

 

Both the quantity of 1908 NM's and 1908 WF NM's...combined with some post-1990 Bubble loose grading....has many of the coins as either overgraded or not solid for the grade.

For many years, CAC didn't sticker any Wells Fargo 1908 NM's.

 

The 1908 NM's -- WF and non-WF -- are notorious for that "poor strike" look.

 

Any other 68 is going to cost multiples of that $17,000....and I think a 1908 WF NM in MS-68 is under $30,000. No other Saint-Gaudens is gonna be grabbed for less than $75,000.

An MS-66 should be $3,250...$3,500 tops. JMHO. Yes, I'd pay a bit more if it REALLY looked good.

 

Is that really what happens ? Given that you KNOW there are some really super-wealthy players here, unless you are one of THEM....why play with the intention of stretching and paying up for a coin here or there if someone worth 9 or 10 figures can just blow you away and spend an extra $100,000 on a coin and not care ?

It's one thing if you're competing with folks in your financial weight class, but if Godzilla enters the arena, what's the point, huh ?

 

This holder appears to be from 2016, long after the WF Hoard coins were graded in the mid-to-late 1990's. I believe that virtually ALL the original gradings (> 90%) were assigned to PCGS.

Accordingly, this is very likely a PCGS MS-66 that got an upgrade from NGC and serious buyers here are more likely to consider it overgraded and want to pay MS-66 money, maybe MS-66+ at best.