Well, it is "certified"- 1796 2.5 gold

Discussion in 'US Coins Forum' started by Jack D. Young, Aug 16, 2021.

  1. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

    A friend had this one come across his counter and was asked to make an offer; he posted it and the consensus is fake.

    Some thought it may be contemporary but others a worn down banged up GM piece.

    Images of the "coin" in question:

    234184778_10159867961521416_4530493456395967919_n.jpg
    235796188_10159867961461416_8054332438635705368_n.jpg

    224348098_10159867961391416_5927481565363445766_n.jpg

    225097033_10159867961641416_4738553104837161385_n.jpg

    Reverse compared to a genuine example (courtesy PCGS CoinFacts):

    236878910_2931694713756221_4636914688586247203_n.jpg

    And a GM from a set sold on Heritage; comparison images to the subject example:

    GM-combo.jpg

    comb-o.jpg
    comb-r.jpg
    Reverse reminded me of my "Kettle" 1803:D:

    ketle.jpg
     
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  3. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

    I have to agree, just by the numerals in the date would be enough to say: It ain't real.
     
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  4. Steven Shaw

    Steven Shaw Well-Known Member

    Umm, Nu(mistrust)? Why not a more trusted TPG?
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
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  5. Stevearino

    Stevearino Well-Known Member

    Yikes. Someone went to a lot of trouble to make that piece look worn, but worn in a crazy, unlikely way.

    Steve
     
  6. ToughCOINS

    ToughCOINS Dealer Member Moderator

    Way too many red flags.
     
  7. clembo

    clembo A closed mind is no mind

    Man!
    I could take my glasses off and see the vast differences.
     
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  8. Stevearino

    Stevearino Well-Known Member

    Anyone care to enlighten me about the acronym or abbreviation "GM?" Tried to find a definition online but couldn't.

    Steve
     
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  9. Publius2

    Publius2 Well-Known Member

    Thanks Steve. I was too embarrassed to ask.
     
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  10. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    GM = Gallery Mint

    Gallery Mint was a private firm that made copies of U.S. coins using the same minting methods with a screw press that were used at the first U.S. Mint. Gallery Mint did strike and market a copy of the 1796 No Stars Quarter Eagle. I don't have a picture of it, so I can't say if this is a worn down example of it.

    There is only one known obverse for the 1796 No Stars Quarter Eagle. Clearly this one does not match up. The date is way off as are the remaining details visible on the profile of Ms. Liberty.

    1796 $250 real bad O.jpg

    The reverse is off too. Note the "skinny clouds" under "STATES OF."

    1796 $250 Real Bad R.jpg

    "Nuistrust Corporation" was a "not ready for prime time" grading service that was around when I was a dealer. According to the book by @Conder101, it was founded in 2001 and run as an "in-house" service by a Florida coin dealer. It has since gotten new ownership.

    Whatever it is, they missed the boat on this piece. It's not real.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2021
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  11. masterswimmer

    masterswimmer A Caretaker, can't take it with me

    Steve, my extremely unprofessional, inexperienced opinion of the subject coins worn grade is thus. When counterfeiting a coin in BU grade the markers are visible clear and easy to discern. Now counterfeit the same coin in worn G-AG grade and those markers become much more difficult to identify. I believe counterfeiting a valuable coin in low grade makes it easier to pass as authentic to a lesser trained eye.

    JMO, YMMV
     
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  12. johnmilton

    johnmilton Well-Known Member

    The "wear" gives the counterfeiter the ability to remove some of the problems with his fake that can make it easier to pass. A great many of the fakes that I have seen in NGC and PCGS holders were in "details holders." The "problems" like cleaning and scrapes were put there to remove the chucks of metal and other problems with the counterfeit piece that would have made it easier to spot.
     
  13. Stevearino

    Stevearino Well-Known Member

    By unlikely wear I was thinking of the clear, almost crisp date, but almost worn away devices.

    Steve
     
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  14. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

    The flying chicken on the reverse is a tell.
     
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  15. charley

    charley Well-Known Member

    Gold medallion/Gold medal. Gold metal.
     
  16. Jack D. Young

    Jack D. Young Well-Known Member

  17. masterswimmer

    masterswimmer A Caretaker, can't take it with me

  18. Treashunt

    Treashunt The Other Frank

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  19. halfcent1793

    halfcent1793 Well-Known Member

    I, too, think it's a possible GMM (Gallery Mint Museum) piece ground down. Ron put COPY stamps on either the obverse or reverse as requested, and the obverse looks like it was most likely the home of the counterstamp. Unfortunately, I never bought any of the GMM gold pieces, so I don't have one to compare it to. I wish I'd had the money at the time, but I didn't.
     
  20. John Wright

    John Wright Well-Known Member

    This is positively a worked-down GMM piece. I have never heard of 'Numistrust' as a TPG, but this should VASTLY discredit their credibility.
     
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  21. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Well-Known Member

    What stood out to me was the eagle looking like a Thanksgiving turkey. LOL
    Thanks for the post.
     
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