Weird reverse?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Everett Guy, Feb 4, 2021.

  1. Everett Guy

    Everett Guy Well-Known Member

    I just picked this coin up. Screenshot_20210204-202000_Chrome.jpg I have never seen a reverse like this. Anyone know what it is?
     

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  3. LaCointessa

    LaCointessa Supporter! Supporter

  4. Ryro

    Ryro They call me the 13th Caesar Supporter

    Certainly not Rome's proudest moment;
    IMG_0053.JPG
    L Titurius L f Sabinus
    - Rape of the Sabine Women Denarius
    89 BC. Rome mint. Obv: bare head of King Tatius right, bearded, SABIN behind, palm-branch before. Rev: two Roman soldiers running, each bearing a Sabine woman in his arms; L TITVRI in exergue. Craw. 344/1b; Syd. 698; RSC Tituria 2; Sear 249. 3.76 grams.
    Near very fine.
    Ex: Timeline Auction
     
  5. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    It looks like what Tom Brady and the Bucs are about to do the the Chiefs. :D
     
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  6. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member Supporter

    I believe that is one of the most famous Republican types. Many/most people now call the event 'abduction' rather than 'rape' since the Romans were seeking wives rather than sexual assault. Read:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_the_Sabine_Women

    Solid:
    r14330bb2314.jpg
    fourree (public silver?)
    r14420bb2345.jpg
     
  7. Everett Guy

    Everett Guy Well-Known Member

    Thats a crazy reverse, I seen the coin for $24 and got it. I forgot to post the obverse. Screenshot_20210204-202011_Chrome.jpg
     
  8. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

  9. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Supporter! Supporter

    Yes - language is important... however once "abducted" I have a feeling they didn't have much choice as to what happened next.
     
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  10. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    It’s my understanding that many of the abducted women eventually experienced Stockholm syndrome towards their Roman captors; especially after having families.

    However I believe the word ‘rape’ still remains applicable to what occurred during this time.

    I am reminded of the oft repeated quote ‘a la Arnold’ when asked about: “What is best in life?”

    “To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women”
     
  11. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Supporter! Supporter

    Splitting hairs between abduction/rape of women is really not a good discussion. We all know what happened... and why it happened... and the sorrow, pain and abuse it must have caused. The ancient world was a tough place - and mostly a terrible place for women. I am thankful that the women I know now did not have to experience it. This is an important coin (a collectable coin) - an amazing piece of history that helps to explain the times.. most coins I own celebrate victories, massacres, ethnic cleansing, etc.. so why does this coin upset me? It should not. But I live with two daughters and a wife that support my little hobby.. this coin will never enter my collection... however I certainly understand and respect those that have examples. It just tugs at me...
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
  12. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    Founding Myths of Rome:

    [​IMG]
    RR L TITURIUS LF SABINUS AR Denarius Rape of Sabines 89 BCE Sear 249
    Craw 344-1a


    [​IMG]
    RR Titurius Sabinus 89 BCE AR Den Tarpeia buried shields S 251
    Craw 344-2a
     
  13. Clavdivs

    Clavdivs Supporter! Supporter

    The double whammy!
     
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  14. Roman Collector

    Roman Collector Supporter! Supporter

    Even though we recognize much in ancient Roman society as familiar, such as restaurants, money, stores, hairdressers, pet dogs, theater, art, sports and so on, it's important to realize it was a very different place in its fundamental assumptions.

    It was patriarchal to a degree that is impossible to overstate. It was monarchical, polytheistic, preindustrial, nonscientific, and slaveholding.

    Literacy was low and mortality, disease and violence were high. Brutality against the enemies of the state was not considered a crime against humanity, but it was celebrated on coins, on public monuments, and in epic poetry. The penalty for most crimes was death.

    In some ways we look up to our Greco-Roman ancestors, admiring and copying their architecture and art, celebrating their philosophy and such. But it's important to note that their society was fundamentally unjust and oppressive and none of us would actually like to live there.
     
  15. Everett Guy

    Everett Guy Well-Known Member

    If they abducted them, it prob wasnt for their cooking. Wasnt there plenty of roman women for the romans? It does sound like the women were spoils of war. I dont really like the subject of the reverse but will keep it for the history. So many violent types reverses out there. Goes to show collecting acients is a exciting never ending learning story for guys like me who failed history in school.
     
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  16. Everett Guy

    Everett Guy Well-Known Member

    i will jump in to defend any woman anytime. I have even been sucker punched and shot at because of it. I prob would have been killed quick back in those times...
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
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  17. Herodotus

    Herodotus Well-Known Member

    Early Rome was a backwater that consisted primarily of a group of ‘rag-tag’ male miscreants and outcasts. The understanding that if Rome was ever to develop and grow beyond an insignificant outpost of mercenary sell-swords; population growth was needed.

    Since early Rome didn’t possess many women, it was deemed necessary to look elsewhere. Hence, the raping and pillaging of the populations surrounding Rome.

    I appreciate @Roman Collector ’s take above. I was intending to post something similar.

    As much as we may admire and wax nostalgic about ancient times, they were fundamentally cruel, harsh and extremely violent times. Most all Roman emperors were evil men by any reasonably ethical standard.

    It is often stated that the victors write the histories. Exalted figures such as Julius Caesar, Augustus/Octavian, or Alexander the Great were self-serving/power-hungry Monarchs. They later became the inspiration for modern counterpart dictators such as Napoleon, Mussolini and Adolph Hitler.

    Yes, the Greeks and Romans gave us Democracy, Sciences, Arts and Roads et. al., but they also committed mass genocide on an enormous scale; practically eliminating entire cultures and ‘Hellenizing’/‘Romanizing’ what remained.
     
  18. Everett Guy

    Everett Guy Well-Known Member

    I think this Ssbinus guy might have been some sort or sex weirdo.
     
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  19. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE Supporter

    No, read about him. His name / family were from Sabine. He was relating the myths from his family’s namesake.

    These Denarii relate the past of Rome. These stories were taught to their children, and were their heritage. Although I personally do not like these myths, my heritage is from 2700 years in their future. I cannot ascribe my mores to their times and foundation myths.

    Sabinus was only relating his heritage to everyone who all knew these foundation myths.
     
  20. panzerman

    panzerman Well-Known Member

    The Romans had their flaws. But they also built aqueducts for water, installed roads that still exist today. They carried on trade over vast distances. Their armies where super in their discipline/ training. They influenced many of their barbarian foes to become civilized. Like all great Empires, they became over extended, made too many enemies, and ended up being conquered by the Germanic King Alaric in 410AD. Here and now, we are all happy to collect their beautifull coinage. Even today, the "Fasces" symbol is in the US Congress, Napoleon Bonaparte used the Roman eagle/ standards. Military parades are also a Roman invention . You kinda have to wonder, what if Hannibal had finished them off, and freed the Italian people from RR tyranny, would the World be better today? The bad guys in that struggle were the Republicans of Rome.
     
  21. yakpoo

    yakpoo Member

    That's it! No more pizza for me. :mad:
     
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